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« On This Day In History | Main | Man Of The Year »

New Rocket Blog

Well, actually not brand new--the archives actually go back to September, but relatively new. It's called "Rockets and Such" and reads like it's written by an insider, either a NASA employee or a contractor (I'm guessing the former). Presumably, "the Emperor" (who also presumably has no clothes) is Mike Griffin. The references to pony tails are almost certainly about Doug Stanley.

There's been a lot of programmatic chaos going on in Constellation and ESAS that I haven't been commenting much on. The program remains in big trouble, both because it has weight/schedule and budget issues, and because the budget issues are getting tougher, with continuing resolutions and the like. These are all the result of bad initial choices made in the architecture, which focused on an unnecessary new launch system, instead of coming up with concepts for sustainable in-space infrastructure that could use existing commercial launchers, as recommended by some of the CE&R teams.

The latest problem is that the lander design apparently won't close, a problem exacerbated, as pointed out in comments, by its requirement to do part of the lunar orbit injection burn. This is a problem that would be greatly mitigated by an architecture employing a depot in lunar orbit or (more likely) L1, or even in LEO. The former would also enable reuse of the lander. And ultimately, after the collapse of ESAS, I hope that's the direction that the program will go, assuming it survives at all.

One other interesting point is that the J-2X engine development for Ares 1 will probably be delayed by the Shuttle ECO sensor problems, because they don't have enough test stands at Stennis. And in another bait and switch, it turns out that while based on the classic J-2, the engine is basically a completely new one, in terms of development costs and testing--very little of the original design can be used, due to escalating requirements. One more nail in the coffin for the program ultimately, I suspect.

Anyway, I'm adding it to the space blogroll--it looks like a good place to track this stuff, at least for now.

[Mid morning update]

Rob Coppinger has more on the lunar lander problems.

Posted by Rand Simberg at December 20, 2007 06:01 AM
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I just read the blog and find it fascinating. It seems to be put out by someone who is (a) an accountant (says so in his profile), doesn't like much of anything that is happening in space right now (including COTS and the Centennial Challenges), really, really hates Mike Griffin, and is an "Insider/Outsider" (What is that?) He has got the Internet Rocketeer Club talking points down too, including my favorite - every technical design challenge is a total, catastrophic disaster that will surely sink the project. Shows a certain willfull ignorence about how these sort of projects usually proceed. If there were no problems, there wouldn't be much need for engineers I should think. Nevertheless, I will add this one to my regular reading list. It will be enlightening in a left handed kind of way.

Posted by Mark R. Whittington at December 20, 2007 07:49 AM

Mark, if I were you, I wouldn't be bringing up the topic of willful ignorance. The fact that you're willing to attach your name to your ignorant comments doesn't somehow render them more insightful than the comments of those who need for various reasons to remain anonymous, but actually know what's going on.

Posted by Rand Simberg at December 20, 2007 07:56 AM

Just so your confused mind doesn't get further confused, and thus further confuse all the other already confused minds here, 'accountant' is the default in the blob spot profile. It's the 'a' in accountant that does it, get it?

Posted by Accountant at December 20, 2007 08:26 AM

Rand, there are as of today 199 blogs in the Space Blogroll, and I'm going to be adding more later this week. You can find that blogroll on quite a few blogs, including my Space Feeds blog aggregator: http://tinyurl.com/28f79h

I'm sure that there's a few space and rocket and astronomy blogs on there that you haven't seen yet.

Posted by Ed Minchau at December 20, 2007 08:52 AM

It's a good read, Rand. The ego seems a little big, but I suspect it is that way to make things entertaining. I certainly agree with many of his posts even if he doesn't cut much slack even for the "minions".

Posted by Leland at December 20, 2007 11:40 AM

I honestly never really ventured far in the space blog world. Primarily because I rarely read anything I didn't already know. But I am glad to see Ed Minchau has a website. I'll have to start adding it into my reads... though it seems he, in his own words, posting a little less these days.

Posted by Leland at December 20, 2007 11:45 AM

Im aggregating over at Bl0glines, but i've found that quite a few of the blogs have went inactive and many of them post rarely, if ever anything related to space, so ive trimmed my feed collection down quite a bit. Fortunately, Bl0glines helps there by showing time from last post etc.
I'd be glad if every blog engine offered categorized feeds ...


duh .. why is Bl0glines a banned word ?

Posted by kert at December 20, 2007 02:02 PM

Mark, you really ought to read a few more of the posts. The soi-disant "Rocket Man" has no sympathy for prizes or Armadillo Aerospace, ergo cannot be a member of your dreaded Internet Rocketeer Club (TM). Considering how he doesn't like anything w/r/t space activities, he is more deserving of the title Space Curmudgeon...except, well, it's already taken... care to donate your mantle to the more deserving?

Posted by Simon Jester at December 20, 2007 04:07 PM

You know what this whole ESAS-Constellation-Ares business reminds me of? That Fred Brooks fellow, guru of large software projects, of Mythical Man Month and No Silver Bullet fame.

One of his many aphorisms is the "Second System Effect." The idea is that with any large software project -- a compiler, and operating system, an air traffic control system -- you have Generation One, which is in service or had been in service and got the job done, but it was all a kludge, dontchaknowit, having all kinds of warts, and by golly, we are going to build Generation Two, and technology has advanced so much since those Dark Ages of Generation One that Generation Two will be ever so much more capable, and we have learned so much from Generation One that Generation Two won't have any of the warts or other problems.

I think what is bothering the current return-to-the-Moon effort is that everything has to be New and Improved -- the whole Apollo but on steroids thing. The original Saturn V took mass ratios and payloads to near physical limits, but this thing has to be much bigger and capable than Apollo. There have been some improvements in materials and in computers since those days, but the Rocket Equation hasn't changed all that much.

Posted by Paul Milenkovic at December 20, 2007 06:52 PM

There have been some improvements in materials and in computers since those days, but the Rocket Equation hasn't changed all that much.

Well, if the costs of space launch had much to do with the rocket equation, you might have a point. Unfortunately, they don't.

Posted by Rand Simberg at December 20, 2007 07:29 PM

Re-useable lunar landers with fuel depots at EML-1?

Great idea.

EML-1 is better than LEO for lunar access due to issues related to orbital mechanics. EML-1 can be accessed 24/7 from any point on Earth, and the Moon.

Posted by Bill White at December 20, 2007 07:50 PM

Very interesting links!

Something very odd though in the flightglobal.com article by Rob Coppinger about the LDAC-1 Lander design. Rob describes the Lander descent stage as having methane engines! Not only is that contrary to every other story so far about the Lunar Lander but the accompanying story illustration of the Lander also shows outsized fuel tanks on the descent stage which are typical of hydrogen fuel engines.

Maybe Rob made a typo that slipped through editing?

"The LOX/CH4 descent engine has been selected..."

When Rob really intended to say 'The LOX/LH2 descent engine has been selected...'?

Posted by Brad at December 20, 2007 08:03 PM

Brad, I don't have the slides with me to double check (I'm 1500mi away right now), but the NASA lander pitch that was circulated earlier this week contained drawings which I *recall* called out hydrazine/tetroxide tankage on the descent stage. Very big tanks. With a little tiny cabin/ascent stage with four suited astronauts standing in it. Quite close together.

Posted by T.L. James at December 20, 2007 08:31 PM

To be clear, when I say outsized fuel tanks I meant fuel tanks much larger than the oxydizer tanks, typical of the 2.7 times larger volume of liquid hydrogen tanks to LOX tanks of LOX/LH2 engines. The story illustration shows a vertical lander design with six cylindrical propellant tanks oriented with a vertical axis on the descent stage. It is very reminiscent of the JSC 'habitank' design.

Posted by Brad at December 21, 2007 09:32 AM

You're right Brad they are typos, it should read LOX/LH2, that will teach me to rush things before I left for my xmas vacation.

I am now on holiday so my colleague in our US office is making those changes to LH2 in the story. One good thing about the web.

If any of you found this story;

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/12/21/220464/nasas-moon-mission-could-see-major-change-in-concept-of.html

with a non-functioning Hyperbola blog link at the bottom, its being deleted as, a, it shouldn't be not working, and, b, when I filed that story I did intend to write a blog post based on my exclusive Mike Griffin interview from his UK visit on 13-14 December, but didn't have the time.
The story above does refer to that interview with a comment by Griffin on Ares I CLV.

Interesting comment by Thomas James on Altair's DM. The presentations I have clearly indicate a LOX/LH2 choice because it says that an NTO/MMH fuelled DM would be very heavy and present severe mass problems for the Ares V CaLV.

Anyway, Keep up the good work Rand!

Rob.

Posted by Rob Coppinger at December 21, 2007 09:52 AM

"I just read the blog and find it fascinating."

Well, sarcastic humor will seem fascinating to anyone with a low I.Q. like Shittington.

"It seems to be put out by someone who is (a) an accountant (says so in his profile),"

Is Shittington really stupid enough not to realize that "accountant" is the first-in-the-alphabet default value for the field, and that the man is not an accountant and just hasn't filled out his blog profile?

Unlike some undergraduate history majors that we know...

"He has got the Internet Rocketeer Club"

Great... more of Shittington throwing stones through the walls in his glass house.

Let's see, what are Mr. Shittington's aerospace engineering and policy qualifications:

Undergraduate history major?

Nope.

Dittohead blog about Harry Potter and other fantasy/sci-fi movies?

Nope.

Fiction that no publishing house has accepted?

Nope.

But that pedigree does qualify Shittington for the Club of Amateur Armchair Aerospace Engineers and Undergraduate History Majors With Pedophilic Fantasies About Boy Wizards and a Young Rush Limbaugh.

"every technical design challenge is a total, catastrophic disaster that will surely sink the project."

Only utter idiots without an iota of basic aerospace systems engineering can't see the trainwreck that is Ares I.

What an insulting, ignorant, blind, dumb idiot is Shittington...

Posted by WhittingtonIsAnIgnorantIdiot at December 21, 2007 01:29 PM

Rand:

You corrected me on the idea that the size of a launcher has a direct relationship to its cost, and that is the underpinning of the MCD philosophy and the Big Dumb Booster.

NASA has a problem launching the weight of the size of crewed spacecraft they want, but all the attempts to make the launcher even a little bit more capable boost the costs several fold. I might be wrong about the Rocket Equation driving costs, but NASA seems to be on the wrong side of the MCD/BDB idea.

Posted by Paul Milenkovic at December 21, 2007 07:54 PM


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