Transterrestrial Musings

Comments

It may or may not be terrorism, but it's certainly infringement of RKBA.

Posted by at September 13, 2007 07:18 AM

IIRC, those terrorist attacks in England and Scotland (Glasgow Airport) a little while back were orchestrated and implemented by Muslim doctors

And now a (likely) Muslim medical student is scoping out a park at night with an assault weapon (assuming that it really was an AK-47).

I thought terrorism was supposed to be the result of poverty/hopelessness or some such thing. /sarc

Posted by kayawanee at September 13, 2007 08:17 AM

And now a (likely) Muslim medical student is scoping out a park at night with an assault weapon (assuming that it really was an AK-47).

An assault weapon? Tsk, tsk. An "ugly gun".

Posted by at September 13, 2007 08:20 AM

An assault weapon? Tsk, tsk. An "ugly gun".
Posted by at September 13, 2007 08:20 AM

Ah, no. What the Congress referred to as "assault weapons" were really just (as you put it) "ugly guns". The so called Assault Weapon ban prohibitted semi-automatic rifles with a few novelty items like a bayonet holder and large capacity magazines. REAL assault weapons (ie combat weapons that include settings for three round bursts and full automatic) were already illegal.

That's why I made a point to say "(assuming that it really was an AK-47)". My suspicion is that it's not really an AK-47, but rather a semi-auto weapon, and therefore not a real assault weapon. Assuming the article is correct, and taken at face value, this guy was sneaking around at night, in camaflage, with an assault weaponm, and possibly looking for a target.

That's a little scary.

Posted by kayawanee at September 13, 2007 08:47 AM

So what you're saying is, you're not scared of semi-auto but you are scared of three-round burst capability?

Posted by at September 13, 2007 08:51 AM

Actually, no, but burst and full auto have been effectively illegal for over 70 years--the AWB was passed in part by papering over that fact and conflating semi-automatic weapons with ones that were made illegal during the mob wars.

Posted by at September 13, 2007 09:00 AM

So what you're saying is, you're not scared of semi-auto but you are scared of three-round burst capability?
Posted by at September 13, 2007 08:51 AM

Why let a little thing like the facts interfere with an intellectual pursuit, when everyone knows that well constructed snark is far more informative.

You wish to play that assinine game. Ok, here you go:

So what you're saying is, you can't see the difference in lethality between authentic military weapons (assault weapons) and their semi-auto counterparts?

A witty saying proves nothing.

Posted by kayawanee at September 13, 2007 09:11 AM

Remington has made a 30.06 semi auto for many many years now, and you can even get 20 round magazines for them. In effect you would have a semi auto BAR. But it was not effected by the so called Assault Weapons Ban, since it didn't look evil.

Liberal politics at work.

Posted by Cecil Trotter at September 13, 2007 09:14 AM

Little Green Footballs links to this guy's personal website: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=27024&only&rss

where he says this is "The Start of My Personal Jihad (in the US)"

Posted by Some guy at September 13, 2007 09:17 AM

First of all, the news reports didn't clearly say that this so-called "assault rifle" on Zorkot's person was converted to full auto.

Second, yes I know that full auto has more stopping power than semi auto. And that full auto has been all but illegal for 70 years. So? Do you think that that's a good thing?

The point is, it's all well and good to go after terrorists, but do they have to do it by exploiting gun control?

Posted by at September 13, 2007 09:21 AM

Now, on the subject of jihad, here is an interesting quote from March 2003 from Nouri al-Maliki (who also used the first name "Jewad" or "Jawad" until 2005):

Iraqi exiles here expressed doubt today that Muslims would take up Saddam Hussein's call this morning for jihad in response to the American-led invasion of Iraq. "Jihad has to be called for by someone respected by Muslims," said Jewad M. al-Maliki, the Damascus representative of Al Dawa, an Iranian-backed Islamic group whose members have remained underground since they were heavily repressed around 1980.

(Unfortunately it's in TimesSelect, I can't link it.)

So this raises two points. First, does Nasrallah have the religious authority to call for jihad? Yeah, probably. Second, I've heard that Maliki is a good man, so maybe jihad is not always a bad thing.

Posted by at September 13, 2007 09:49 AM

First of all, the news reports didn't clearly say that this so-called "assault rifle" on Zorkot's person was converted to full auto.

The article referred to the weapon as an AK-47 assault rifle. An AK-47 IS a military assault weapon. If indeed this weapon is an AK-47, then it is definitely an assault rifle. If this particular weapon is limited to semi-auto, then it is NOT an AK-47. It would likely have some other model name/number/letter. As I said before, I'm taking what the article says at face value. If the gun really is an AK-47, then it is a military assault weapon. If the gun is a semi-auto version, then it is no different from any number of other semi-auto weapons which may or may not be considered "Assault Weapons" for purposes of the Assault Weapons Ban. If it is semi-auto only, then it is NOT an AK-47. Does that help clarify the point?

Second, yes I know that full auto has more stopping power than semi auto.

Actually that is not necessarily true. Stopping power usually refers the ability of a single cartridge to take down a target. For example, a .357 magnum revolver has more "stopping power" than a .22 caliber revolver. The ability to spray lots of bullets is not generally referred to as "stopping power".

And that full auto has been all but illegal for 70 years. So? Do you think that that's a good thing?

Personally, I think automatic weapons should be controlled rather than banned. But that's a whole other discussion.

The point is, it's all well and good to go after terrorists, but do they have to do it by exploiting gun control?

Huh? I don't think the article even mentioned gun control. Maybe I missed that.

Posted by kayawanee at September 13, 2007 09:57 AM

I don't think the article even mentioned gun control.

It said that he was booked on weapons charges only.

Posted by at September 13, 2007 10:25 AM

It said that he was booked on weapons charges only.
Posted by at September 13, 2007 10:25 AM

Yes, you are correct. I thought your mention of gun control was in reference to the Assault Weapons Ban. My bad.

The charges here refer to state laws that deal with firearm transportation. Specifically, the charges were carrying a loaded firearm with illegal intent and keeping a loaded firearm in an automobile. The former is a felony, while the latter is a misdemeanor.

Again, these are just state charges. Once the Feds take a look at his My-Space page, they'll probably add some terrorism related charges as well.

Well--one HOPES that the Feds will do that.

Posted by kayawanee at September 13, 2007 10:44 AM

If this particular weapon is limited to semi-auto, then it is NOT an AK-47

Huh? I own an SKS, made in China, and it has all the Chinese characters on it. I bought it pre-ban, with large mags and a bayonet. The fact that it's been limited to semi-auto, does NOT change it's pedigree. Plus one well placed round is as good as full auto, if you're a decent shot. Within range an AK, or an SKS, is capable of that single shot kill. You're no "deader" from a single shit to the head from a semi-auto or a full auto rifle. Dead id dead.

Not to mention the small fact that any gun smith worth his salt can make that gun full auto in minutes. I'm guessing that there is at least one jihadi gun smith in Dearborn.

Posted by Steve at September 13, 2007 10:57 AM

Kaya: While true at the pedantic level, even enthusiasts commonly refer to a semi-auto AK variant as an "AK-47".

The use of "AK-47" to refer to semi-automatic variants, while technically inaccurate, is not just widespread but nearly universal.

Some of the modern semi-autos are even designated "AK47", now that the AWB has expired and they're not prohibited from using the name and also selling the guns.

Given that semi-auto AK variants are marketed and sold as "AK47"s, and that the enthusiasts also refer to them as "AK47" rifles, it's beating a dead horse to complain that the media using that term is uninformative, even if it's true.

(See here for a gigantic list.)

Posted by Sigivald at September 13, 2007 10:59 AM

"Not to mention the small fact that any gun smith worth his salt can make that gun full auto in minutes. I'm guessing that there is at least one jihadi gun smith in Dearborn."

This is an urban myth. The ATF must type approve each rifle for import or manufacture and the requriement is it must be difficult to convert.

The rifle you cite would require the replacement of four components, the addition of three new components and extensive machine work to the reciever including internal cutting and milling.

At this point, you are essentially replacng 25 percent of the rifle.

Posted by Mike Puckett at September 13, 2007 11:13 AM

Posted by Steve at September 13, 2007 10:57 AM
The fact that it's been limited to semi-auto, does NOT change it's pedigree.

Posted by Steve at September 13, 2007 10:57 AM

I see your points. Ok, I'm wrong on that. I guess it is possible for someone in the media to incorrectly refer to a semi-auto AK-47 as an assault rifle, depending on the type and distinguishing characteristics.

Here's a link to various semi-auto models:
http://www.firearmsfirst.com/?p=16

Plus one well placed round is as good as full auto, if you're a decent shot. Within range an AK, or an SKS, is capable of that single shot kill. You're no "deader" from a single shit to the head from a semi-auto or a full auto rifle. Dead id dead.

Very true, but the same could be said about nearly all firearms. A good shot with a .22 caliber single action revolver can kill a man. But fully automatic weapons have distict advantages over both single action and semi-auto firearms.

Posted by at September 13, 2007 11:43 AM

REAL assault weapons (ie combat weapons that include settings for three round bursts and full automatic) were already illegal.

Huh

They aren't illegal, you just have to get the right license for them. Also, that Chinese SKS AK-47 variant has the interesting property that after several hundred rounds have been fired through them and the wear starts to show, that you can often get three round bursts out of the gun.

I have shot many full auto guns and they are quite fun.

Posted by Dennis Ray Wingo at September 13, 2007 11:43 AM

"The Start of My Personal Jihad (in the US)"

Google translates the Arabic that follows teh above statement as this:

Believers who emigrated, and strive in the cause of Allah with their wealth and the greatest degree of themselves when God and those are winners.

Be sure to check out what is apparently his website at www.zorkot.org

Looks like a lot of pro Hizbolla "stuff".

Posted by Cecil Trotter at September 13, 2007 11:45 AM

They aren't illegal, you just have to get the right license for them.

Posted by Dennis Ray Wingo at September 13, 2007 11:43 AM

I thought you needed a collector's license to get a hold of one of them, and from what I've heard, that's pretty hard to come by. I know you can fire auto's at various gun ranges around the country, but I was under the impression that most of us could never own one.

Posted by kayawanee at September 13, 2007 11:47 AM

Dennis, the SKS isn't a variant of the AK. It is only a predecessor of the AK that is chambered for the same round: 7.62mm x 39mm.

Posted by Cecil Trotter at September 13, 2007 11:50 AM

It depends on whether you live in one of 38 odd states that allow it and the status of your criminal background.

And your finincial well being.

It does not require a liscense, it requires a tax stamp from the bureau of Alcohol, Tobbaco and Firearms on an approved Form 4.

Posted by Mike Puckett at September 13, 2007 11:52 AM

Kayawanee, to own a full auto weapon you need a BATF issued class 3 firearms license. Not terribly difficult to get, just expensive. You have to pass a rather stringent background check, pass a test I think and pay the fee. And then every time you buy a class 3 weapon (which are already expensive) you have to pay a transfer fee. All of this expense leads to class 3 being rather rare.

A collectors license, or Curio and Relic license, is a different thing. It allows you to buy older weapons (Mauser, Mosin-Nagants, some SKS etc.) directly without going through dealer. I once held a C&R but have since let it lapse.

Posted by Cecil Trotter at September 13, 2007 11:55 AM

Actually Cecil, it is a scaled down PTRS anti-tank rifle.

The caliber is the same but the SKS uses a tilt locking bolt and a seperate short stroke piston. The AK has a rotating bolt and a long stroke piston.

A SKS has far more in common with an FN-FAL than an AK and an AK has more in common with an M1 Garand than an SKS.

Posted by Mike Puckett at September 13, 2007 11:56 AM

"Kayawanee, to own a full auto weapon you need a BATF issued class 3 firearms license."

Incorrect, there is no such thing. It requires a special occupation tax(SOT) paid on top of a standard FFL to SELL them. It only requires a tax stamp on an approved Form 4 to own them.

Posted by Mike Puckett at September 13, 2007 11:58 AM

Reading Mikes post above I may be wrong on some of the particulars of class 3, I was just going on memory of what a friend who has class 3 weapons told me.

Posted by Cecil Trotter at September 13, 2007 11:59 AM

I have a class three, it is an SBR though. Still, the legal process is exactly the same down to the same forms as for FA. The same $200 tax stamp and every single legal requirement is exactly the same.

The only difference is an SBR can be Form 1'ed as well as Form 4'ed.

A form 1 is to make, 4 is to transfer. No new civi legal FA's can be Form 1'ed. That is the result of the amendment to McClure-Volkmer on May 16, 1986.

Posted by Mike Puckett at September 13, 2007 12:03 PM

Mike "Actually Cecil, it is a scaled down PTRS anti-tank rifle."

True, but I was talking about the AK's lineage not the SKS's. About the only thing on the SKS that could have inspired Kalashnikov would be the gas tube.

I own both an SKS and an FN-FAL (and an AK for that matter) and you are correct on their similarity of operation. I also have an FN49 (FAL predecessor) and it is even more SKS-like.

Posted by Cecil Trotter at September 13, 2007 12:10 PM

Incorrect, there is no such thing. It requires a special occupation tax(SOT) paid on top of a standard FFL to SELL them. It only requires a tax stamp on an approved Form 4 to own them.

Posted by Mike Puckett at September 13, 2007 11:58 AM

Um, ok. So how difficult/easy is it for an ordinary private citizen, such as myself, to be in a position to own an automatic weapon.

Posted by kayawanee at September 13, 2007 12:12 PM

Anonymous said: "Second, yes I know that full auto has more stopping power than semi auto."

That's if you can hit anyone. The M-14 is auto but has rarely been used that way due to the control issue.

Posted by D Anghelone at September 13, 2007 12:22 PM

Um, ok. So how difficult/easy is it for an ordinary private citizen, such as myself, to be in a position to own an automatic weapon.

1)What state do you live in?

2)How clean is your background? Are you willing to be fingerprinted and subjected to a stingent background check?

3)how much discretionary cash do you have on hand? 20-25k for an AK.

Posted by Mike Puckett at September 13, 2007 12:26 PM

Posted by Mike Puckett at September 13, 2007 12:26 PM

1)What state do you live in?

New Jersey

2)How clean is your background? Are you willing to be fingerprinted and subjected to a stingent background check?

Spotless record. As far as fingerprinting and background checks go, I already had to do that to get a handgun permit. NJ has very stringent handgun laws and background checks.

3)how much discretionary cash do you have on hand? 20-25k for an AK.

Heh! Not that much. I guess I won't be owning an AK-47 anytime soon. I take it private citizens who own such weapons are extremely rare.

Posted by kayawanee at September 13, 2007 12:37 PM

1)What state do you live in?

New Jersey

New Jersey is a no-no state.

Posted by Mike Puckett at September 13, 2007 12:38 PM

I know it's insensitive to make fun of names from other cultures, but..."Zorkot". Hee! That just drips Evil Overlord. KNEEL BEFORE ZORKOT!

Posted by DensityDuck at September 13, 2007 12:40 PM

New Jersey is a no-no state.

Posted by Mike Puckett at September 13, 2007 12:38 PM

You're tellin' me! I should have used the state's proper name:

The Peoples' Republic of New Jersey

Posted by kayawanee at September 13, 2007 12:41 PM

3)how much discretionary cash do you have on hand? 20-25k for an AK.

WHAT? Whoa, they have really went up in price. You used to be able to get an AK for about $600 and a Mattel toy (AR-15A2) for about $500.

I shot a MAC-10 room broom one time. It is probably the most inaccurate gun on the planet.

Posted by Dennis Ray Wingo at September 13, 2007 12:47 PM

Dennis,

You can get a semi-only for less than 1K but we are talking stuff with the 'Go Fast' position on the 'happy switch'.

Or a s Pat Rogers calls it, the 'Group Therapy' setting.

Posted by Mike Puckett at September 13, 2007 01:02 PM

"You used to be able to get an AK for about $600 and a Mattel toy (AR-15A2) for about $500."

You could for the go fast stuff circa mid-80's along with a $200 tax stamp and through background check till the Hughes amendment to the Firearms Owners Protection Act put an artificial limit on supply back in 86.

Artifically constrained supply and demand.

And of course all this has likely saved zero lives since there is only one recorded instance ever of a legit Class Three firearm being used in a homicide and that was by a police investigator to murder a drug informant.

Posted by Mike Puckett at September 13, 2007 01:09 PM

At the time I bought my semi-auto AK-74 I paid about $300. I also have about the same in my FAL, didn't buy it but rather built it from a new receiver and and de-milled surplus.

I didn't realize class 3's were so expensive, last I remember seeing were in the low thousands certainly not 10k.

But I hear you can get a real AK in Africa for $50!!

Posted by Cecil Trotter at September 13, 2007 01:10 PM

WHAT? Whoa, they have really went up in price. You used to be able to get an AK for about $600 and a Mattel toy (AR-15A2) for about $500.

Posted by Dennis Ray Wingo at September 13, 2007 12:47 PM

Isn't the AR-15 a semi-auto version of the M-16? The last time I saw it advertised for $500 was in an Edelman's Outdoor Shop catalog in 1975.

Anyway, Mike is referring to an automatic Kalashnikov. And in addition to the purchase price of the firearm (which is no doubt considerable), he's probably also including all the additional fees that go along with owning an automatic weapon, such as tax stamp, transportation, storage, etc.

Posted by kayawanee at September 13, 2007 01:11 PM

Isn't the AR-15 a semi-auto version of the M-16? The last time I saw it advertised for $500 was in an Edelman's Outdoor Shop catalog in 1975.

Ooops, that was my post. Sorry about the missing tag. Anyway, I just took a look at catalog on the web, and while most of the models were $1000 or more, I did see one of the models of the Bushmaster AR-15 for about $600. I didn't realize they were so cheap!

Posted by kayawanee at September 13, 2007 01:29 PM

Mike,
you're right about the rebuilding to make that rifle full auto. But it's still easier to re-manufacture the innards of existing rifles in the country, than it would be to smuggle fully auto models. Maybe not even cheaper, but easier.

And I doubt that people who have decided we all need to die, are concerned about the amount of time and materials needed. They seem to have enough funds to go to other extents to kill and maim.

Posted by Steve at September 13, 2007 02:40 PM

"But it's still easier to re-manufacture the innards of existing rifles in the country, than it would be to smuggle fully auto models. Maybe not even cheaper, but easier."

I have seen several reports of the real things being smuggled up thru mexico.

Posted by Mike Puckett at September 13, 2007 02:45 PM

"Chinese SKS AK-47 variant has the interesting property that after several hundred rounds have been fired through them and the wear starts to show, that you can often get three round bursts out of the gun."

That is something a gunsmith can fix. Its all well and good when the rifle has a selector that lets you know when its going to happen. But having a burst go off when you don't expect it isn't a good thing.

I used to have a SKS with a composite stock and 10x scope. I've seen the SKS with the hell fire switch installed and it doesn't really fire all that quickly. You could pull the trigger as fast yourself.

Posted by Josh Reiter at September 16, 2007 09:43 PM

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