|
Reader's Favorites
Media Casualties Mount Administration Split On Europe Invasion Administration In Crisis Over Burgeoning Quagmire Congress Concerned About Diversion From War On Japan Pot, Kettle On Line Two... Allies Seize Paris The Natural Gore Book Sales Tank, Supporters Claim Unfair Tactics Satan Files Lack Of Defamation Suit Why This Blog Bores People With Space Stuff A New Beginning My Hit Parade
Instapundit (Glenn Reynolds) Tim Blair James Lileks Bleats Virginia Postrel Kausfiles Winds Of Change (Joe Katzman) Little Green Footballs (Charles Johnson) Samizdata Eject Eject Eject (Bill Whittle) Space Alan Boyle (MSNBC) Space Politics (Jeff Foust) Space Transport News (Clark Lindsey) NASA Watch NASA Space Flight Hobby Space A Voyage To Arcturus (Jay Manifold) Dispatches From The Final Frontier (Michael Belfiore) Personal Spaceflight (Jeff Foust) Mars Blog The Flame Trench (Florida Today) Space Cynic Rocket Forge (Michael Mealing) COTS Watch (Michael Mealing) Curmudgeon's Corner (Mark Whittington) Selenian Boondocks Tales of the Heliosphere Out Of The Cradle Space For Commerce (Brian Dunbar) True Anomaly Kevin Parkin The Speculist (Phil Bowermaster) Spacecraft (Chris Hall) Space Pragmatism (Dan Schrimpsher) Eternal Golden Braid (Fred Kiesche) Carried Away (Dan Schmelzer) Laughing Wolf (C. Blake Powers) Chair Force Engineer (Air Force Procurement) Spacearium Saturn Follies JesusPhreaks (Scott Bell) Science
Nanobot (Howard Lovy) Lagniappe (Derek Lowe) Geek Press (Paul Hsieh) Gene Expression Carl Zimmer Redwood Dragon (Dave Trowbridge) Charles Murtaugh Turned Up To Eleven (Paul Orwin) Cowlix (Wes Cowley) Quark Soup (Dave Appell) Economics/Finance
Assymetrical Information (Jane Galt and Mindles H. Dreck) Marginal Revolution (Tyler Cowen et al) Man Without Qualities (Robert Musil) Knowledge Problem (Lynne Kiesling) Journoblogs The Ombudsgod Cut On The Bias (Susanna Cornett) Joanne Jacobs The Funny Pages
Cox & Forkum Day By Day Iowahawk Happy Fun Pundit Jim Treacher IMAO The Onion Amish Tech Support (Lawrence Simon) Scrapple Face (Scott Ott) Regular Reading
Quasipundit (Adragna & Vehrs) England's Sword (Iain Murray) Daily Pundit (Bill Quick) Pejman Pundit Daimnation! (Damian Penny) Aspara Girl Flit Z+ Blog (Andrew Zolli) Matt Welch Ken Layne The Kolkata Libertarian Midwest Conservative Journal Protein Wisdom (Jeff Goldstein et al) Dean's World (Dean Esmay) Yippee-Ki-Yay (Kevin McGehee) Vodka Pundit Richard Bennett Spleenville (Andrea Harris) Random Jottings (John Weidner) Natalie Solent On the Third Hand (Kathy Kinsley, Bellicose Woman) Patrick Ruffini Inappropriate Response (Moira Breen) Jerry Pournelle Other Worthy Weblogs
Ain't No Bad Dude (Brian Linse) Airstrip One A libertarian reads the papers Andrew Olmsted Anna Franco Review Ben Kepple's Daily Rant Bjorn Staerk Bitter Girl Catallaxy Files Dawson.com Dodgeblog Dropscan (Shiloh Bucher) End the War on Freedom Fevered Rants Fredrik Norman Heretical Ideas Ideas etc Insolvent Republic of Blogistan James Reuben Haney Libertarian Rant Matthew Edgar Mind over what matters Muslimpundit Page Fault Interrupt Photodude Privacy Digest Quare Rantburg Recovering Liberal Sand In The Gears(Anthony Woodlief) Sgt. Stryker The Blogs of War The Fly Bottle The Illuminated Donkey Unqualified Offerings What she really thinks Where HipHop & Libertarianism Meet Zem : blog Space Policy Links
Space Future The Space Review The Space Show Space Frontier Foundation Space Policy Digest BBS AWOL
USS Clueless (Steven Den Beste) Media Minder Unremitting Verse (Will Warren) World View (Brink Lindsay) The Last Page More Than Zero (Andrew Hofer) Pathetic Earthlings (Andrew Lloyd) Spaceship Summer (Derek Lyons) The New Space Age (Rob Wilson) Rocketman (Mark Oakley) Mazoo Site designed by Powered by Movable Type |
Low Bid? I'm kind of surprised (though pleasantly, if true) at the estimated cost of the contract to Boeing for the Ares 1 upper stage: The $514.7 million cost-plus-award fee contract runs through 2016 and covers the manufacture of a ground test article, three flight test units and six production flight units. So they're getting about ten units altogether for half a billion? Even if the development costs are zero, that's only about fifty megabucks a copy. If we assume that it's a couple hundred millions for DDT&E, that's only about thirty million each. I'm sure that the J2-X will be cheaper than an SSME, but I would think it's still going to cost several million dollars per engine. I would have guessed that the stage cost was higher. These numbers imply to me that, with learning (and I guess it helps that NASA provides the production facilities at Michaud--I'll bet that's not included in the costs stated above) that they could get the marginal cost per stage down in the twenty-five million range or less. Better news for sustainability than I would have thought. I wonder what the cost of the first stage is? [Thursday update] OK, there seems to be a consensus in the comments that this price doesn't include engine or avionics (those are separate contracts), which is where a lot of the cost of a stage lies. So it's not that great a deal. I thought it was too good to be true. Posted by Rand Simberg at August 29, 2007 02:09 PMTrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.transterrestrial.com/mt-diagnostics.cgi/8122 Listed below are links to weblogs that reference this post from Transterrestrial Musings.
Comments
Finding costs for space systems can be difficult. Looking at the Encyclopedia Astronautica entry for the Shuttle SRB, there's a quoted cost of $23.2 million for each engine. Taking that number (for what it's worth), adding a fifth segment might increase the cost to perhaps $30 million. Of course, the cost may not scale linearly with the number of segments so my number is just a SWAG. I couldn't find any costs for the J-2X engine. It is intended to be simplier to build than the old J-2s used during Apollo. Rocketdyne was awarded a $1.2 billion R&D contract for the engine. The old hard tooling is long gone but computerized tooling allows for "soft tooling" that could lower costs. Posted by Larry J at August 29, 2007 03:00 PM
According to Av Week, NASA can extend the contract to 23 stages for a total price of $1.125 billion. Those figures do not include avionics, however. Av Week notes that there's another major contract competition for Instrument Unit Avionics development, which is estimated to be a $1 billion project. I wonder if it includes engines? Since NASA has a separate engine development contract with Rocketdyne, they may be procuring the engines separately as well.
This contract does not include the engine or the avionics. Not that good of a deal for an upper stage structure.
C'mon Rand, you KNOW this will cost at least $1.5 billion before it's over. When I worked for a government contractor, we always low balled the initial bid (as did everyone else) knowing that contract mods alone would double if not triple the total cost of the contract. Is it still a good deal at $1.5B? I think not. Posted by Brad at August 29, 2007 05:04 PMLet me see if I have this right - Boeing is being paid $514.7 million to develop 10 upper stages (minus engines and avionics). Later production could get the cost down to about $25 million per upper stage. However, when you take away the engines and avionics, about all you have left are the propellant tanks and structure. Sounds kind of pricey to me. Posted by Larry J at August 30, 2007 07:08 AMPost a comment |