It's not just college campuses. Military commanders on the front of the war have made their bases into gun-free zones.

And in a supposedly "conservative" administration.

I wish we'd had better choices to vote for.

I wish we'd had better choices to vote for.

Is wishing all you intend to do?

Seems to me that supporting Jim Webb style Democrats (perhaps more anti-gun control than George Allen) is one route towards creating better options rather than simply whining and reflexively supporting the Administration.

Seems to me that supporting Jim Webb style Democrats

Jim Webb is the wrong direction entirely. He's waiting for Ted Nugent to run for office.

Is wishing all you intend to do?

Based on history, there's not much more I can do. No, I'm not entranced with "Jim Webb" or "Jim Webb Democrats." They remains Democrats (though I think that Webb just ran as a Democrat because he couldn't get the Republican nomination against a sitting Senator). I don't think that Webb has any coherent political philosophy.

Posted by Bill White at May 11, 2007 07:51 AM

Webb (who I did not support for Senator, his comment which he was unrepentent for about women in the US Navy is completly unacceptable... to many female Canoe U grads in the family) is, all that aside about in the "temperate zone" for American politicans.

He is to be sure on the "left edge" Of it. just as Ronaldus the Great would more or less define the 'right edge' of it, but he is in the temperate zone.

What he did in VA was truly amazing in politics. In a "pinkish" state (VA is trending blue in the northern part) he put together an organization that ran an effective "street fighter" camapgin against an entrenched symbol of the other party. It would be the equivelent of Bob Dole beating Clinton or well Ronaldust beating JC.

How amazing it is, is seen by all the excuses made for why GA lost. They are silly on the extreme and do not acknowledge the political realities on the ground.

To triumph over an incumbent one has to have an incumbent in trouble and then present a suitable alternative to that incumbent. Webb managed to do that.

If the Dems show up in 08 with more "Webb" and the GOP retreats to conservative uberallis, it is going to be a really bad year for the Elephant.

Robert

"This selection of political correctness and safety concerns over force protection contrasts markedly with combat experience in World War II, Korea or Vietnam, where soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines were required to be armed — with loaded weapons — at all times," one official said.

The above assertion is nonsense. In Vietnam there were gun-free towns/cities. In my experience, the military services like their members armed only as the situation requires.

Robert,

Virginia has a contrarian streak. Allen ousted Robb, remember? You can believe what ever you want to but if GA had not said 'Macaca' the GOP would be in charge of the Senate and he would have found the very few thousaand votes he needed. It was a tough year but Allen still ran a horrible campaign, a very, very, horrible campaign. He lost it pure and simple. I have observed Virginia politics for 25 years and you can't put in in a nice red-blue formula at anything less than the state level.

It has and will continue to vote solidly red at the Presidental level. Anyting below that is and always has been up for grabs.

Whatever party has held the presidency, the other has held the Governor's mansion in Richmond since the mid 70's at least without exception.

Besides, as much as I like Webb's 2nd Amd position, he is a few french fries short of a happy meal. He has to watch his p's and q's for six years and I don't think he can pull it off. At some point he will explode. I strongly suspect that seat will switch again in 2012.

Posted by Mike Puckett at May 11, 2007 09:09 AM

Mike.
I dont know what I would have done had I still lived in VA. I just dont know.

Allen is/was a turd. He was a lackey to this administration and showed no real thought pattern. On the other hand, Webb's performance as SecNav in a lot of things was "less" and his inability to stand to on his comments about Women in the USN In particular is almost as lacky status as Allen. A lot of people got women in the military wrong, but most of us have been able to see the error and recognize it and fix it. I am no fan of Ollie North either, but North is a model here of how reality should trump ideology.

I found the Dem base in the election to be fascinating (and a little scary here). Unlike the GOP base they were able to accept "a winner" even though that winner was not a "pure base conformist". The odd thing is that the on ly "pure Dem left base guy" was Lamont and he got creamed.

I dont agree with your Macca observation. As you note Allen ran a horrible campaign, and had he not had the Mcacca comment, he would have had something else that would have doomed him. He was dead meat in the campaign. He never could quite figure out that he had to do more then pander to a base to get reelected...particularly in the face of a very smart well run opposition.

VA might be solid red in Presidential politics...but I wouldnt count on it. Along with a house, I have lots of friends in the Tidewater area. (and some in northern VA as well)

the cheering section may be pretty loud in the GOP base, but it is dimming in a lot of circles that use to be "semi base"...ie the military.

The comments on Piggley Wiggley's visit in country recent (Cheney to Iraq) and his speeches there have been amazingly hostile. As one chum who was at his speech told me "He makes Quayle look fracken brilliant".

Robert

Simberg overstates the issue.

The rule on bases is that weapons must be unloaded
on entry. That is chambers clear, magazines out.

Standard arms rules.

It was the same way at Prince Sultan Air Base in '96. Of course, they also had Air Traffic Controllers (me) pulling guard duty with no guns, no radios, and no whistles. When asked what I would do if a terrorist came into the ops center, I replied, "I would pray that the guys with the M-60s have bullets, or that I can debate really well."

Simberg overstates the issue.

Gertz does. I think Simberg errs in imagining this dovetails with the civilian gun-rights issue. It doesn't. In the US, civilians have more rights, including weapons rights, than do military personnel. You sign away your rights when you join the military.

At Fort Belvoir, any private arms had to be stored in the arms room and signed out when used. Civilians could buy and do pretty much as they pleased in Virginia.

Posted by anonymous at May 11, 2007 09:35 AM

correct...it is an overstatment. typical

In most places "in country" it is just "chambers clear". that is why outside every building just about are these big drums with sand in them pointed to the ground at an angle with signs in front of them "CLEAR WEAPONS BEFORE ENTERING"

Robert

We were always taught ('85 or so) that unless you are in imminent combat, you clear your weapon. Period. Guard duty and border patrol carried ammo (I was on the East German grenze), but never loaded.

Now, if everyone was required to turn in ammo after duty, and had to account for every single round (like we had to do in peace time) then that would be stupid, but I don't see the story saying that was the case. If not, then seating a magazine and chambering a round is all of three or four seconds...pretty reasonable to avoid accidents.

As for accidents being avoided by proper training, do you know what they taught us to do? Clear your weapon if you aren't in imminent need of it.

The whole 'gun-free zone' idea gives me flashbacks to the 'nuclear-free zone' ideas, as if waving your declearation of having no nuclear capability of your own will somehow deflect the warheads of anyone inclined to launch them at you, anyway....

The same logic applies here. I don't pretend to know what the answer may be, but someone willing to commit multiple murder, will hardly be deterred by whatever additional penealty may come from violating a simple campus rule. Espically one not enforced by metal detectors, and secure perimeters, something not readily acheived on a college campus. (the single-building with limited entry points nature of most high schools, at least gives them some advantage in that respect)

The rule on bases is that weapons must be unloaded
on entry. That is chambers clear, magazines out.

This matches what I remember reading about military bases in the States many years ago. Also,

In my experience, the military services like their members armed only as the situation requires.

...was pretty much the rationale for the policy.

I think there is a good case for keeping weapons loaded. At the least, the idea of doing so should not be dismissed out of hand. Repeated loading and unloading, particularly when people are fatigued, invites accidents. "I thought it was unloaded" is less likely when everyone knows that every gun is always loaded.

The complaints quoted in the Washington Times article are nothing new. John Farnam, the weapons trainer, has been making similar arguments forcefully on his website for years. I'm sure that he's not the only one, and I suspect that many current military people agree with him.

Anyone geezer enough to remember that "March on the Pentagon" thingy in '67? None of the soldiers brought in to protect the Pentagon had ammo. Ample ammo for expected riots/insurrection in DC but none brought to the Pentagon.

I think there is a good case for keeping weapons loaded. At the least, the idea of doing so should not be dismissed out of hand. Repeated loading and unloading, particularly when people are fatigued, invites accidents. "I thought it was unloaded" is less likely when everyone knows that every gun is always loaded.

The complaints quoted in the Washington Times article are nothing new. John Farnam, the weapons trainer, has been making similar arguments forcefully on his website for years. I'm sure that he's not the only one, and I suspect that many current military people agree with him.

Anyone geezer enough to remember that "March on the Pentagon" thingy in '67? None of the soldiers brought in to protect the Pentagon had ammo. Ample ammo for expected riots/insurrection in DC but none brought to the Pentagon.

Anyone geezer enough to remember that "March on the Pentagon" thingy in '67? None of the soldiers brought in to protect the Pentagon had ammo. Ample ammo for expected riots/insurrection in DC but none brought to the Pentagon.

Don't know how I got a triple post. Sorry.

Posted by Jonathan at May 11, 2007 05:54 PM

the basic firearms safety rule and in the case of a semi automatic weapon is that when you dont need a round chambered, dont have it chambered.

It is kind of like the zipper on ones pants...always know intrinsically where the fly is.

Robert