Transterrestrial Musings

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Woot! I started that Wikipedia back during the election. ;-) Nice to see the term being used more. The first use that I've seen was from QandO.net and their NeoLibertarian.net

Posted by Michael Mealling at May 9, 2007 06:09 AM

I was once a neonate...but it didn't last.

Posted by Gunga at May 9, 2007 06:21 AM

"Historically, there are no known examples of a State with "big" government abroad and limited government domestically"

Posted by Wikipedia at May 9, 2007 07:28 AM

Rand,
Yeah, neolibertarian fits the bill a lot better than "classical liberal" or neoconservative ever did. First time I heard you say that you were a classical liberal I almost blew milk out of my nose. :-)

I still think that you, Michael, and all the rest of the neolibertarians (and neocons for that matter) that I know are borderline stark raving mad when it comes to foreign policy. But I will agree that neolibs at least "get it" when it comes to things more domestic.

~Jon

Posted by Jonathan Goff at May 9, 2007 08:06 AM

Hmm. I've cut out neoplasms from people's faces. Does that count?

Posted by Jane Bernstein at May 9, 2007 08:09 AM

I'm just Neo

Posted by Neo at May 9, 2007 08:13 AM

A study in contrast...strong unified foreign policy that requires a strong unified national infrastructure and yet...well local control at home.

yeah that works.

What Uber hawks cannot quite get is that the rise of the US as a superpower has been directly traceable to the rise of the power of the federal government. And it has to be.

If local control is best then state governors would be able to remove the Guard from the Armed forces at will.

If local control is best then each town should be able to decide when and if its citizens go to a national war.

If local control is best then Bush V Gore is bad law.

In a sort of James Burke connections. If local control is best, then the local governments should build the roads, except wait after WWII we figured that didnt work so well so we instituted a national system of roads built by taxpayers for the national government with little local control.

Good news is that in this country we can all label ourselves what we want to. Frack the requirement of consistency.

Robert

Posted by Robert G. Oler at May 9, 2007 08:16 AM

This sounds familier. We keep hearing that Islam is a peaceful religion...

"...an ideological offshoot that incorporates interventionist foreign policy, the use of pre-emptive military force..."

Does this mean that Al Qaeda types are neo-Islamists?

Posted by Roger Strong at May 9, 2007 08:30 AM

Rand: "A lot of ignorant morons call me a "neocon,""

The term 'necrocon' is far more descriptive. More succinct than "apocalyptic, vicariously homicidal, Eichmann-esque death's-head psychopath," but conveying the same general impression.

"and I generally eschew labels in general"

Except when they serve your purposes. A necrocon typically does eschew labels in reference to himself, because it would impose an objective standard by which his words and actions could be judged--a violation of the necrocon ethos of moral and rational vacuum.

"I'm apparently a neolibertarian."

There's a far less cumbersome term for someone who advocates libertarianism at home and fascism abroad: Hypocrite.

Posted by Brian Swiderski at May 9, 2007 08:49 AM

Posted by Roger Strong at May 9, 2007 08:30 AM

There are so many logical inconsistencies with people who are trying to "invent" labels for themselves other then "semi extremist, extremist, and uber extremist" on both sides of the political spectrum that is boggles the mind.

"STrong foreign policy"...whats that? This guys foreign policy almost rivals the Dem left base for stupid. "Strong" foreign policy is partially in the policy itself, but a very co equal branch of that is the execution of the policy.

Going into Iraq shifted the focus from catching Mr. OBL to the concept of nation building to create a better mideast...a laudable goal but hardly the one that was sold and as it has been executed probably the wort foreign policy adventure in this nations history. Bush is on the brink of losing because he cannot keep his own electorate behind him.

Local government...yeah sure. That must mean that the neolibs were oppossed to Bush V Gore which used the same vehicle (the 14th) to upsurp complete state control over elections absent blatant voter fraud as the folks who want gay marriage see (the equal protection clause)...ah the theory goes "the epc is good for causes we like but not for the other ones"...lol

The far left is about as clueless. What they want is a society were equality of result is given despite equality of effort and yet have the current lifestyle. IE advancing medecine, etc. That society (a kind of Star Trek NG one) to function needs people who will have effort in excess of the average evem though the rewards are no greater. That is fiction.

It is the ELO song. "Hold on tight to your dreams" holding on so tight to them that reality cannot see through.

Robert

Posted by Robert G. Oler at May 9, 2007 08:56 AM

It's amazing what comes out of the woodwork when you kick it. I'll limit my comments to one, as a representative example. Robert G. Oler said, "If local control is best, then the local governments should build the roads, except wait after WWII we figured that didnt work so well so we instituted a national system of roads built by taxpayers for the national government with little local control."

No, we instituted a system of national payment (from national taxpayers) for locally-built and managed roads. The control is entirely local; the funding is partly national.

Posted by Jeff Medcalf at May 9, 2007 09:45 AM

Jonathan --

Yeah, neolibertarian fits the bill a lot better than "classical liberal" or neoconservative ever did. First time I heard you say that you were a classical liberal I almost blew milk out of my nose. :-)

I don't recall when Rand called himself a classical liberal, but depending on your definition of "classical" that may not be too far off. Jerry Pournelle likes to say "I am a liberal. A sixteenth century liberal, to be exact."

Posted by Ilya at May 9, 2007 09:51 AM

Posted by Jeff Medcalf at May 9, 2007 09:45 AM

What a hoot.

If the neolibs had their way then NASA Parkway in Clear Lake would be paid for by the citizens that will use it.

But it isnt, it is paid for by national funds and construction of it is totally dependent on national policy, as local folks found out when the money ran out and the effort "stopped" for a bit...(it ran way over budget).

Thanks for playing

Robert

Posted by Robert G. Oler at May 9, 2007 10:07 AM

> If the neolibs had their way then NASA Parkway in Clear Lake would be paid for by
> the citizens that will use it.

> But it isnt, it is paid for by national funds and construction of it is totally dependent
> on national policy, as local folks found out when the money ran out and the effort
> "stopped" for a bit...

I didn't realize NASA had its own highway, Robert, but even if they do, that's not the way most roads today are built. Maybe it was done that way "after WW II" but World War II was a long time ago.

The last time I worked on a new highway project (in the 1990's), it was privately financed, then turned over to the government to operate.

Today, private companies seem to be operating highways as well as financing them.

The Texas Observer says the state is "building a network of privately financed and operated toll roads and super-corridors that will literally and figuratively change the state of Texas for generations to come... all part of a global effort by investment banking firms and multinational companies to convert public infrastructure—roads, bridges, tunnels, airports—into private, moneymaking ventures."

"The effort to privatize infrastructure dovetails nicely with the agenda of public officials who want to build new roads and repair old ones without increasing taxes. 'What we’re seeing,” says Pat Choate, an economist, author, and Ross Perot’s vice presidential running mate in 1996, 'is an era in which governments will be selling off their infrastructure to keep their no-tax pledges.'”

Just because something as a government function once does not mean it must remain a government function forever. We don't need NASA to raise cattle (that ended when George Abbey left, right?), build roads, or operate space transportation systems.

Posted by Edward Wright at May 9, 2007 10:52 AM

Ilya,
I know what "classical liberal" means. I just don't think Rand's foreign policy fits the description. His domestic policy might be closer (though the common neolib disdain for due process and rule of law might also call that into question), but neolibertarian is just a lot better description. If Rand likes it (which I assume he does or he wouldn't have posted it), I think it fits him better as well.

~Jon

Posted by Jonathan Goff at May 9, 2007 11:00 AM

Posted by Edward Wright at May 9, 2007 10:52 AM

Ed.

did I say NASA had their own road or did you make that up or think that I implied it...? I dont know but NASA RD 1 was named a long time ago and it was renamed NASA Parkway when the DeLay et al "spend it wing" of the party bought into the need for a new hurricane evac route because (to quote DeLay) "the NASA workforce is a unique asset to the country and we must make sure that in the event of a hurricane that they can evacuate safely" He should have added "in a time of war" and then he would have had all the hot buttons.

Isnt DeLay a "neo(insert the label of the day)" hero?

The Texas Observer...yeah right.

The nation is in no small measure what the nation is today because of the IKE Highway system. YOu should like it, everytime you go to Walmart. Wally world would be impossible without it.

Robert

Posted by Robert G. Oler at May 9, 2007 11:12 AM

Posted by Edward Wright at May 9, 2007 10:52 AM

I would add this Ed.

After six years of supposdly adult rule that people like you and Whittington and all the other folks were telling us 6 years ago was letting the "adults" be in charge...

So much reversal of big government has taken place!

HAH

John Ashcroft (who Alberto has made look competent) use to go around putting sheets over lady Justice because apparantly he had never seen a bust on a woman. As one person said "the last time Aschcroft saw a woman without clothes was when his Mom nursed him!.

I guess now that all the secret decoder ring champions of conservative government are taking those sheets and using them to cover their heads in shame. Or they should be.

What a hoot.

Robert

Posted by Robert G. Oler at May 9, 2007 11:30 AM

> I dont know but NASA RD 1 was named a long time ago and it was renamed NASA
> Parkway when the DeLay et al "spend it wing" of the party bought into the need

Robert, NASA Road 1 is really "State Highway NASA Road 1." I hadn't heard about "NASA Parkway" but you should be able to tell from the name that a State Highway is not a Federal road.

Only you could attack the GOP for pork-barrel spending while simultaneously defending that spending and calling for more. :-)

The world has changed a lot since Eisenhower's Day. (FYI, his nickname was spelled "Ike," not "IKE.") Back then, there was no public Internet, no personal computers, no cheap airfares, and yes, all highways were built by the government.

Sure, we could go back to the days of falling-apart Interstate Highways with no private investment. We could re-regulate the airline industry and prohibit non-government users from accessing the Internet. But we won't. I, for one, am glad.

Posted by Edward Wright at May 9, 2007 12:06 PM

I'm assuming you meant Eisenhower. There's also a furniture store called "IKEA," but I don't know why you'd relate them to highways.

Posted by Edward Wright at May 9, 2007 12:16 PM

'necrocon' ... Hypocrite.

I notice he hasn't been back. Rand, please tell me you banned him.

Posted by at May 9, 2007 01:50 PM

Posted by Edward Wright at May 9, 2007 12:06 PM

you are confused Ed. not the first time not the last.

No one in the Clear Lake Area knows what use to be NASA RD 1 as State HIghway Nasa Rd 1. But thanks for playing.

Second you are behind the times. A hurricane evacuation route is being built "overhead" what use to be NASA Rd 1. It is elevated from El Camino Real (near the OUtpost) loops south (elevated) around the Webster Tank farm and then turns north near the Fry's to go "onto" the North bound lanes of I-45 (which is a federal highway).

The name was changed from NASA RD 1 to NASA Parkway sometime ago. Construction stopped on the multi lane bypass for a bit as Federal funds ran out because the thing was massivly overbudget.

The old NASA Rd 1 was originally a state highway and might still be labeled that, but at least 4 major expansions of it have been accomplished since the 90's and the bulk of those with Federal Funds.

BAck when I was President of my trailer Park (GRIN) lol...chuckle we were massivly involved with all this planning so I have about 1000 times more knowledge of it then you do.

Go back to defending an administration that has screwed the people who voted for it only slightly harder then the rest of the nation.

Your help is needed, and is at least entertaining there. Like most other things you shot at on CLC and me and whatever...your information here is wrong.

AS trump would say "Your fired".

LOL (In a great mood now)

Robert

Posted by Robert G. Oler at May 9, 2007 02:07 PM

I would love to put several of the commenters here in a bar and have them say out loud the things they write here. The video would be interesting to say the least. I would be king of YouTube for a day at least.

Posted by Bill Maron at May 9, 2007 02:30 PM

I should have known better. See what happens when you feed the trolls?

Posted by Jeff Medcalf at May 9, 2007 02:32 PM

Wow, now Robert is a trailer park President AND a highway planner? How many jobs is that now?

Posted by Mac at May 9, 2007 02:35 PM

> No one in the Clear Lake Area knows what use to be NASA RD 1 as State HIghway Nasa Rd 1.

The State of Texas knows it's a state highway, no matter what some confused people in "the Clear Lake Area" think. I also doubt that you really speak for everyone in Clear Lake.

> The name was changed from NASA RD 1 to NASA Parkway sometime ago.

Naming it after NASA does not make it a Federal highway, Robert. It certainly doesn't prove your ideological dogma that only the Federal government can build and operate roads.

Texas has a tollway named after George Bush, too. That doesn't mean it's owned and operated by George Bush.

> but at least 4 major expansions of it have been accomplished since the 90's
> and the bulk of those with Federal Funds

Ah, now I see the reason for your confusion -- because it receives Federal funds, you think it must be a Federal highway?

Unfortunately, Robert, you see politics in black and white: If state and local government are allowed to control some things, they must control everything, including whether to go to war. In our world, the Constitution created a system called "Federalism" that divides powers between the state and Federal government. Neither one was intended to be all-powerful.

I know it's different in your world where Reagan had a beard and agreed that big government was the solution to every problem. :-)

Posted by Edward Wright at May 9, 2007 03:39 PM

Ed. one more time.

The NASA bypass isnt What use to Be NASA RD 1.

they are two seperate highways. One is BRAMD MEW

do some research.

Robert

Posted by Robert G. Oler at May 9, 2007 05:22 PM

To answer Wikipedia's question, I can think of several cases that probably would qualify, ie, that would have modest or absent domestic government coupled with substantial foreign policies: classical Greece prior to the Macedonian conquest, the Netherlands for a period of time in the late Middle Ages after they became free from Spain, Vikings, Huns, Mongols, and many other barbarian raiders/invaders, and the city-states of medieval Italy (Venice, Genoa, etc), and the Hashshashin or Fedayeen of Alamut. Many of these groups weren't pleasant fellows, but I think it does demonstrate that one can have simultaneously a weak government and a strong foreign policy (even if the policy consists solely of looting weaker neighbors).

Posted by Karl Hallowell at May 9, 2007 05:27 PM

Hypocrite.

Posted by Brian Swiderski at May 9, 2007 08:49 AM

If irony causes cancer, Brian is on some serious chemotherapy.

Posted by Mike Puckett at May 9, 2007 05:46 PM

The NASA bypass isnt What use to Be NASA RD 1.

Robert, that doesn't remotely pass for English.

You were ranting about the "NASA Parkway." Suddenly, you've switched to ranting about the "NASA bypass."

In either case, your rants do anything to prove your point. Hint: Even if the Federal government built one road, that does not prove that *all* roads must be built by the Federal government.

One is BRAMD MEW
do some research.

The research department says that BRAMD probably stands for "Buffer Rand Access Memory Dump." "MEW" could be Manufacturer's Empty Weight, Marine Early Warning, Measure of Economic Welfare, or Ministry of Economic Warfare.

I'm not sure how to translate that. Why are you speaking in acronyms anyway?

Posted by Edward Wright at May 9, 2007 06:50 PM

Latebreaking report from the research department, Robert.

The NASA Bypass is a Texas Department of Transportation project, not a Federal project.

http://www.commercialpropertynews.com/cpn/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003118373

Posted by Edward Wright at May 9, 2007 07:05 PM

I thought I had commented here yesterday on this subject, but I don't see the post. I wrote that Ed was (and he still is) far closer to the truth than Robert. Really, Ed now has his facts much better than Robert, who is using his local knowledge of the area mixed with bullshit analysis to sound like some genius.

To paraphrase Bill Maron, I would like to see Oler mouth off about the wisdom of Clear Lake area residents at some of the local bars. Then again, the way he is writing, I'm sure others would simply assume he is too drunk to attempt to engage in reasoned discussion.

As Ed has stated, NASA Parkway and the bypass for the NASA Parkway are a TxDOT project. Ed had to look it up on the web, while Oler probably could have driven down the road and read the large 6' x 6' sign. It's construction has been delayed largely because of local politics and the foolish decision to give the original contract to a floundering/mis-managed business in the hope to keeping it a float. Alas, a clear example of the excesses of very local politics. That's not to say I agree with federal control of highway funds and the states having to beg for money taxed away from it citizens. It's simply to point out that Oler picked a very lousy example to prove whatever point he was trying to make (Well, maybe it was excellent if he just wanted to stroke his own ego and put down others using stupid talking points).

Posted by Leland at May 10, 2007 07:43 AM

Leland...I know where the money is coming from. I was at the presentation before one spade was even turned at the by pass. INdeed I was at the turning of the first spade. Do some research in the Citizen to find my lovely picture!

Robert

Posted by Robert G. Oler at May 10, 2007 08:33 AM

Apparently, you remember events differently than everyone else present.

Posted by Leland at May 11, 2007 03:56 PM

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