...at the New York Post--he's falling down on the job. They could have taken that alliterative headline to the mth degree: "MOUNTAIN MEADOWS MASSACRE MOVIE MIFFS MORMON MITT."

Bravo. Variety needs you.

Funny thing is, this little incident has been scrubbed (along with most other historical facts) out of our history books.

I had never heard of it until I saw it on the History Channel a couple of years ago.

Here's some more history you might not know about...

Did you know that Mormons were driven off their land in Jackson County, Missouri in 1831? That they were robbed, murdered, and had their lands stolen?

Then they were driven out of Clay County, Missouri in 1833, and again robbed, murdered, and had their lands stolen?

Then again in Daviess and Caldwell county Missouri in 1838 they were driven off their lands, which were stolen?

Did you know that Mormons were slaughtered at Hauns' Mill in Missouri by the state militia? Men, women, and children.

Did you know that Governor Lilburn Boggs of Missouri passed an "extermination order" against the Mormons, which not only made it legal to kill Mormons, but the policy of the state of Missouri? Did you know that law was on the books til 1976?

Did you know that Joseph Smith made a direct appeal to President Martin Van Buren about the depredations of the Missouri government, and Van Buren told him, "Sir, your cause is just, but I cannot help you. I will lose the vote of the state of Missouri."

Did you know that the state of Illinois promised to protect Joseph Smith when he gave himself up to state custody in 1844 on spurious charges, but instead allowed a mob to murder him?

Did you know that the state of Illinois drove Mormons off their lands without compensation in 1846 and burned their temple?

Did you know that the federal government, which had offered no protection to Mormons at all, came to them in their poverty and destitution in 1846 and asked them to send men to fight the Mexican war and that the Mormons supported the government and sent their men?

Did you know that Buchanan sent federal troops to Salt Lake City in 1856 to take over the city and only narrowly averted war with the Mormons?

I'm very very sorry the Mountain Meadows Massacre ever happened. I wish it hadn't. But Brigham Young was no demon blood-thirsty monster like they portray him in that movie. On the contrary, he was one of the wisest, bravest, most noble men America produced in the 19th century.

I know it is off-topic, but I just thought you would like to know, Rand, that the astronaut glove centennial challenge has been won, by Peter Homer of Maine. According to Alan Boyle you were the person who suggested this particular challenge, so kudos to you as well.

Rand suggested the glove challenge? Wow, I guess they're serious about accepting ideas from the public. Everybody remember I suggested an ablative materials prize.

To Miffed Mormon,

Did you know that the Mormons, worship sea gulls?

Did you know that there are still many Mormons, particularly in the southern part of the state, who practice polygamy?

Did you know that NO reputable historian(ie, no one educated in any non LDS college) believes any of the #$&^* that your founder, Joseph Smith wrote?

I could go on, but why?

BTW, I was stationed at Hill AFB near Ogden in the late 70s, and got to know several Mormons. Nice people, but their theology was completely whacked, and as far as minorities were concerned, let's just say that racial discrimination was rampant, especially among the leadership.

Seagull Hunter, you're smoking crack.

Mormons don't worship seagulls.

Mormons aren't polygamous.

And I don't care what "reputable" historians think, since I'm sure if they embraced the Book of Mormon they would immediately become disreputable historians in your book.

I lived in Utah too, just south of Hill Air Force Base too. We were probably neighbors. Sorry you think our theology's whacked, but I can't do anything about that. I was never taught racism or discrimination by the Church. Sorry you're so angry.

One of the reasons that Mormons were driven out of Missouri is that they were opposed to slavery and believed that all men were God's children. The Missouri people, who favored slavery, thought that the Mormons would come in and change the political balance of the state sufficiently that slavery would be outlawed. They also treated the Indians well, which further incurred the wrath of the Missourians. Hardly the actions of a racially-hateful people.

Mormons started out polygamous and some still are. Used to be that black people had the mark of Cain to Mormons. Smith started out a bank with a box of sand covered with gold goins (Kirtland Anti-Bank). Blood atonement (slit throat) was standard practice for "apostates." All true folks. Still want to wear your magical underwear and be the god of your set of planets with your sealed wives?

This exchange lends powerful proof that religion, not faith, is a great source of animosity.

Mormons started out polygamous and some still are.

False. Polygamists aren't Mormons. Most never were, having grown up in polygamous enclaves. Those that turn to polygamy who are Mormons are excommunicated.

Used to be that black people had the mark of Cain to Mormons.

False. I've been a lifelong Mormon and I've never once been taught this from anyone other than anti-Mormons. A pure fabrication.

Smith started out a bank with a box of sand covered with gold goins (Kirtland Anti-Bank).

False again. The Kirtland Safety Society Bank was started to provide Mormons in Kirtland with banking services, and was begun with about $60,000 in real estate as equity. It failed along with hundreds of other banks in the Panic of 1837.

Blood atonement (slit throat) was standard practice for "apostates."

False again. Never taught or practiced, only in the minds of anti-Mormons.

All true folks.

Nope, folks, not true. If you'd like to study further than the anti-Mormon writings that form the foundation of this poster's knowledge, then you'll get the whole story.

Still want to wear your magical underwear?

It's not magic underwear. It's a symbol of a covenant I've made with God, analogous to the cross someone wears around their neck or the skullcap worn by a Jewish person.

and be the god of your set of planets with your sealed wives?

I only desire to dwell with God in heaven with my wife (single) and family. Not a terribly uncommon desire in the Christian world, to the best of my experience.

This exchange lends powerful proof that religion, not faith, is a great source of animosity.

There's nothing strange about not wanting to be lied about and misrepresented. If someone calls your father a thief, your wife a whore, and your mother a witch, you'll probably tend to get upset whether you're religious or not.

For some reason in this country, it's still considered fair sport to lie about Mormons and misrepresent Mormons. They certainly have their first-amendment rights, but that doesn't mean we have to be happy about it and not try to represent ourselves accurately.

Many religion's had interesting foundations and false starts... what impresses me is how those truths are handled. To be embarrassed by them is only natural, but to defend lies is very revealing in my opinion.

Being wrong is not anywhere near as important as wanting to understand what is true (again in my opinion.)

For a christian to lie is to make satan their father.

Miffed says: There's nothing strange about not wanting to be lied about and misrepresented. If someone calls your father a thief, your wife a whore, and your mother a witch, you'll probably tend to get upset whether you're religious or not.

Absolutely true, but considering the fact that the lies and misrepresentation are coming from other religious groups, and about religious groups should point out that religion is another spelling of "politics." Any religious writings, sooner or later, mention something close to accepting others, yet no religious group can seem to do that. Even though your views are under attack, you still lash out with invectives...False again. Never taught or practiced, only in the minds of anti-Mormons.

Feelings getting hurt over dogma and doctrine are a flashpoint with any organized religion. Have faith, will travel, have religion, will fight.

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