Transterrestrial Musings

Comments

Dan Simpsons article shows why liberals only need one square of toilet paper. They like to use the U.S. Constitution for the same purpose.

Posted by BDavis at April 28, 2007 11:47 AM

There seems to be some question if the original op-ed was, in fact, a tongue in cheek description of what would be necessary to make America a "gun free zone". Certainly the "museum" references are pretty funny. The alternative to that interpretation is that this "diplomat" is a raving fascist nutjob. If the latter, then someone needs to review the qualifications at the State department for that job.

Posted by K at April 28, 2007 12:40 PM

I'd say he's a raving fascist nutjob. Sadly, not that out of the ordinary for an anti-gun crusader.

Posted by Brad at April 28, 2007 04:35 PM

Either it was weak satire or pure idiocy.

Posted by Mike Puckett at April 28, 2007 05:01 PM

Either it was weak satire or pure idiocy.

Simpson or Burge?

Posted by D Anghelone at April 28, 2007 05:20 PM

Simpson.

Either he is being too witty by half or adcovating a police state that would result in the destruction of the nation.

Posted by Mike Puckett at April 28, 2007 06:04 PM

Simpson is serious. If you comb the nation's newspapers, it is not hard to find a pundit here and there from the Alan Colmes school. Today it's the Toledo Blade, next month it will be Peoria Piddler.

Meanwhile, take a look at these RKBA photos from Africa. Over there it's still the good old days, when boys could play with real rifles.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/29/weekinreview/29gett.html

Posted by at April 28, 2007 06:08 PM

Some better pictures of RKBA to the max, in Liberia, Gaza, and Burma.

http://www.greatestcities.com/0712pic/271/CP24271.jpg/Child_Soldier_in_Africa.jpg
http://www.jafi.org.il/agenda/9-1c.jpg
http://johnbatchelorshow.com/admin/allsource/exampleimages/child_soldier%5B1%5D.jpg

Just to be clear, I personally don't want America to go in this direction. But if you really think that an armed society is a polite society, here you are.

Posted by at April 28, 2007 06:35 PM

Everybody quotes Heinlein's "An armed society is a polite society" (most not knowing who they're quoting) but never bothers to find out what he meant by it.

If the writer of the article is serious,then he's a friggin' nutcase & I invite him to come to my house to get my guns.

Posted by Frantic Freddie at April 28, 2007 06:44 PM

Mike: "Either he is being too witty by half or adcovating a police state"

Are you under the impression that we're not already living in a police state?

"that would result in the destruction of the nation."

By whom exactly?

Posted by Brian Swiderski at April 28, 2007 08:45 PM

Yeah, it seems the "Armed Society is a Polite Society" thing and the 'Religon of Peace' don't go so well together.

Seems to work well enough for the non-RoP parts of Israel and Switzerland though. Works fine in many parts of the CONUS and Alaska too.

If Simpson is serious, he is basically advocating the attempted imposition of a police state and the ensuing mayhem.

In spite of all the protestions of the right being the bastions of hate and repression of civil rights, it is always the nutty left that is eager to dust off the jackboots and break out their moniocles and riding crops.

Perhaps those like Simpson and our nameless poster who fear an armed public could emmigrate to North Korea. I hear they are already the gun free police state paradise they are looking for. Quite unarmed and quite the utopia!

Posted by Mike Puckett at April 28, 2007 08:51 PM

"Are you under the impression that we're not already living in a police state?"

Yes, the empirical evidence and the lack of boot on your face seem to indicate we are still nominally the land of the free.

""that would result in the destruction of the nation."

By whom exactly?"

By the do-gooders who base their entire live on the agresive implementation of 'good intentioned' yet ill-conceived ideas that in a saner age would have resulted in their public lynching or tar and feathering at a minimum.

Posted by Mike Puckett at April 28, 2007 08:55 PM

I think that was genuine. Politicians as a rule aren't known for a sense of humor, at least on policy issues. If it was a parody, I think he would have tried to make it clear. funny thing is Iowahawk's piece is not that far from the original, so outlandish was the whole thing.

Posted by pat at April 28, 2007 09:45 PM

I think if you cannot tell an idea from its parody, it is a bad idea.

Posted by Mike Puckett at April 28, 2007 10:02 PM

Yeah, it seems the "Armed Society is a Polite Society" thing and the 'Religon of Peace' don't go so well together.

Actually, of those three pictures of armed children, only one (Gaza) was a likely Muslim. The Liberian is likely either Christian or animist (and isn't wearing Muslim clothing), while the Burmese girl is most likely Buddhist.

Seems to work well enough for the non-RoP parts of Israel and Switzerland though.

No, those countries have military-owned weapons, not real RKBA. For example, Wikipedia has a page on gun control laws in Switzerland, which says first off that gun owners are registered. Israel is similar. Registration, the RKBA story goes, inevitably leads to confiscation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland
http://www.jpfo.org/israel-firearms.htm

You need to look to countries like Liberia, not Israel or Switzerland, to find widespread unregistered weapons possession. Or to the United States.

Posted by at April 28, 2007 10:56 PM

Well, I should qualify that about Switzerland, because the end of the article has contradictory information about "hunting rifles". But at the very least it applies to handguns. And, of course, only third-world countries like Liberia have RKBA for fully automatic firearms.

Posted by at April 28, 2007 10:59 PM

You are wrong, private citizens can own Fully Automatic weapons in Switzerland just as they can in the US and Finland by jumping thru aditional hoops. They are not limited to government issue weapons.

The information on Wikipedia is not reliable (suprise).

This is a much more reliable source as the individual actually researched the subject:

http://guncite.com/swissgun-kopel.html

Posted by Mike Puckett at April 28, 2007 11:14 PM

Mike: "Yes, the empirical evidence and the lack of boot on your face seem to indicate we are still nominally the land of the free."

What an asshole. Have you been to an airport in the last six years, or moved more than a few thousand dollars between bank accounts? In the latter case, you get a phone call from the Patriot Act compliance officer at the bank (not their official title, of course) wanting to know what you're doing. If they don't like your answers, you'll have to go down in person to explain yourself.

Mike: "By the do-gooders who base their entire live on the agresive implementation of 'good intentioned' yet ill-conceived ideas that in a saner age would have resulted in their public lynching or tar and feathering at a minimum."

How many of them have you shot that you'd otherwise have been defenseless against?

Posted by Brian Swiderski at April 29, 2007 12:24 AM

Don't sweat it Mike. Gun control crusaders tend to base their worldview on wildly inaccurate information.

If gun ownership in the United States was treated the same way it is in Switzerland, rifle ranges would be as common as golf courses and 25% of all homes would have a machinegun.

Posted by Brad at April 29, 2007 03:48 AM

What an asshole.

Okay crew, cut out the Swiderski parodies.

Posted by D Anghelone at April 29, 2007 05:25 AM

Have you been to an airport in the last six years,

Indeed, I just got back from California. No problem making it through security. Of course, the security is necessary because some idiots decided that I couldn't carry a gun on the plane.

or moved more than a few thousand dollars between bank accounts?

Yes, this is indeed annoying, yet this has been around for decades. Of course, this illustrates the stupidity of the original story. Under Dan Simpson, we'd have to get permission from the commisar to almost anything. Speaking of which:

In the latter case, you get a phone call from the Patriot Act compliance officer at the bank (not their official title, of course) wanting to know what you're doing. If they don't like your answers, you'll have to go down in person to explain yourself.

Well, I can't say that's ever happened to me. But then, I don't spout anti-American hate speech on blogs like some BS people do. So maybe that's why they called, or maybe why BS lied about being called. I suspect the latter, BS lies quite often about injustices that never occurred.

Posted by Leland at April 29, 2007 08:50 AM

Well this person understands The Constitution as well as Dick Cheney does.

Robert

Posted by Robert G. Oler at April 29, 2007 09:12 AM

"What an asshole."

What a vile, hate filled, condescending twatwaffle you are but mostly you are a giant douchebag and a world class hypocrite. You rail against perceived fascism but I am sure you would be the first to fire up the ovens if you were in charge.

"How many of them have you shot that you'd otherwise have been defenseless against?"

I have yet to help some brain dead do-gooder asshole commit civilization assisted suicide but thanks for asking.

Posted by Mike Puckett at April 29, 2007 09:16 AM

Language, gentlemen. You, too, Brian.

Posted by Rand Simberg at April 29, 2007 09:26 AM

You are wrong, private citizens can own Fully Automatic weapons in Switzerland just as they can in the US and Finland by jumping thru aditional hoops.

There is nothing wrong with the Wikipedia page. It has a direct link to the Swiss legal code, as well as to an English translation, as well as to the 17-year-old article by Kopel et al that you cite.

The only problem is that you're not really thinking through what you said. If you have to "jump through hoops" to have something, than that isn't real RKBA. Because remember, registration is confiscation. The Swiss law (if you go to the actual text) says directly that private ownership of fully automatic weapons is prohibited. It only says that cantons "may authorize exceptions". That is clearly enough hoops that it isn't remotely a right to own a machine gun, despite David Kopel's spin.

http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/c514_54.html
http://www.guncite.com/swiss_gun_law.html (translation)

Liberia and Iraq, on the other hand, have real RKBA for machine guns. Even a 10-year-old boy can brandish a fully automatic rifle in these countries --- underage carrying is technically illegal, but obviously that law is not enforced. It's pro-gun heaven, for those who want it.

25% of all homes would have a machinegun.

Except that that isn't ownership. The ammunition for those guns in Switzerland is in sealed tin boxes, as in the picture on the Wikipedia page. It's army property stored in homes, not individual rights.

Posted by at April 29, 2007 09:31 AM

Except that that isn't ownership. The ammunition for those guns in Switzerland is in sealed tin boxes, as in the picture on the Wikipedia page. It's army property stored in homes, not individual rights.

The _issue_ ammunition is stored in sealed tin boxes, but there are no laws or army policies against people buying the same sort of ammunition to practice with or hunt with.

You're looking at the bare minimum legal required standby ammo and assuming that's all they're legally allowed to have. It isn't.

Posted by Phil Fraering at April 29, 2007 10:19 AM

Exactly Phil,

They are required to keep some ammo sealed and not shoot it up so they have some ammo if they really need it. They are not limited to using just issue ammo, they can buy 5.56mm ammo at the store or the range and bring it home. This is a schill argument of the anti-gunners that is a lie of omission.

And to own privately purchased full auto machine guns required a collectors liscense that I am told is really not that hard for a citizen in good stead to obtain, easier than their CCW I am told.

Semi-automatic limited copies of military rifles are as easy to acquire as any other hunting weapon.

Posted by Mike Puckett at April 29, 2007 10:33 AM

The _issue_ ammunition is stored in sealed tin boxes, but there are no laws or army policies against people buying the same sort of ammunition to practice with or hunt with.

Except that there are such laws. If you think that there aren't any, then you haven't read either the Wikipedia page or David Kopel's NRA article. Kopel admits that it's illegal to carry military ammunition out of a practice range, but he claims that "the rule is barely known and almost never obeyed." That last part is Kopel's own spin. When I talked to a Swiss citizen, he knew the rule and claime that it was strictly enforced; he said that they count the bullets and make you give back the ones that you didn't use.

Unfortunately, on this point, the Wikipedia page doesn't have any better source than Kopel's 17-year-old NRA article, so it could well be inaccurate.

If you actually go and read the law, it says that (unlike in the United States), you need a license to buy any ammunition, even ammunition for a unlicensed hunting rifle. Swiss law would make no sense if at the same time, military ammunition were freely available.

http://www.guncite.com/swiss_gun_law.html (again)

Posted by at April 29, 2007 10:48 AM

"Except that there are such laws. If you think that there aren't any, then you haven't read either the Wikipedia page or David Kopel's NRA article. Kopel admits that it's illegal to carry military ammunition out of a practice range, but he claims that "the rule is barely known and almost never obeyed." That last part is Kopel's own spin. When I talked to a Swiss citizen, he knew the rule and claime that it was strictly enforced; he said that they count the bullets and make you give back the ones that you didn't use."

And you can get ammo at a store as well as the range and you can bring that ammo home.

Perhaps we should hear what an actual Swiss citizen says:

"The rounds issued for the machinegun can only be used in case of emergency. Ammunition is sold at shooting ranges and is supposed to be used there, but this rule is rarely followed and never enforced. The machineguns in every Swiss home are most certainly loaded with store-bought ammo.

Pistols are actually more tightly regulated in Switzerland than rifles. Carry permits are issued, but you have to have a good reason. In order to buy weapons, you must have a Waffenerwerbsschein (weapons buying permit), but this is just a formality. It's also interesting that you can't buy machineguns without a collector's license, but they'll give you one for free when you're in the reserves.

It's interesting to look at pictures of the Schutzenfest that they have there. It's a rifle and pistol competition that involves basically the entire country. I saw a great group of photos of a man and a woman at one. Arm around each other, machine guns slung on their shoulders, glass of beer in both their hands toasting the camera, children milling in the background, and snow-capped Alps in the distance."

5.56mm caliber rifles are easy to come by in Switzerland. You can buy all the ammo you want in that caliber at the gunstore. You may have to sign for it but you can still buy it. It is not hard to get as you are tyring to make us believe.

Posted by Mike Puckett at April 29, 2007 11:10 AM

In order to buy weapons, you must have a Waffenerwerbsschein (weapons buying permit), but this is just a formality.

Read that part carefully. That is also your permit to buy ammunition.

Posted by Mike Puckett at April 29, 2007 11:13 AM

Perhaps we should hear what an actual Swiss citizen says

Maybe we should, but it doesn't look like you've done that. According to Google, you quoted from someoe named "jlbraun" on a digg.com discussion group. It's not clear who he is, but he sounds American, not Swiss. For example, someone with the same user name in another gun rights mailing list says, "I went to a small Eastern engineering college, and graduated in 2002."

While we are quoting actual Swiss citizens, it would be better to quote people with names and affiliation, better still to quote official statements or documents.

All of these statements saying that one law is "just a formality" or another is "barely known" are undocumented interpretations that have bounced around NRA literature for decades. Now that we have the Web, you can see the Swiss laws for yourself, but this extra commentary is still unproven.

And you can also see how real unlicensed RKBA for fully automatic weapons works in countries like Burma and Liberia. That is the real utopia that you are after. Not Switzerland, where you need a license to buy ammunition.

Posted by at April 29, 2007 11:42 AM

"And you can also see how real unlicensed RKBA for fully automatic weapons works in countries like Burma and Liberia. That is the real utopia that you are after. Not Switzerland, where you need a license to buy ammunition."

When are you moving to one of your Gun Control Utopias like Zimbabwe or North Korea?

Posted by Mike Puckett at April 29, 2007 11:55 AM

Sure, Swiss citizens have full-auto weapons, but all ammunition is strictly accounted for and must remain in a sealed container until the reser-vist reports for duty.
Nancy Hwa, spokeswoman for the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence (CPHV), helps to perpetuate this misconception:
"In Switzerland you're given a limited number of bullets in a sealed tin. If [when you report for service] the seal is broken, you're thrown in jail. If the NRA wants to adopt that system, it would be fine with us." (Source: Notre Dame Magazine O-nline: "Public Enemy No. 1")
The above is true regarding army issued ammunition. However, "Swiss military ammo must be registered if bought at a private store, but need not be registered if bought at a range. The nation's 3,000 shooting ranges sell the overwhelming majority of ammunition. Technically, ammunition bought at the range must be used at the range, but the rule is barely known and almost never obeyed." (Source: What America can learn from Switzerland is that the best way to reduce gun misuse is to promote responsible gun ownership) In other words, Swiss reser-vists are free to purchase, possess, and use military ammunition outside the context of direct military service.
Although Ms. Hwa's quote isn't a lie, it is misleading. It is also extremely unlikely that Ms. Hwa means what she says. Would the CPHV really accept the Swiss system and allow National Guardsmen to keep their M-16 rifles at home?

It is absurd to claim Swiss gun control is responsible for that country's low crime rates, or that the Swiss system proves more guns mean less crime. "Gun ownership in Switzerland defies the simple categories of the American gun debate." (What America can learn from Switzerland is that the best way to reduce gun misuse is to promote responsible gun ownership)

All the sourced evidence I have found thus far seems to indicate there is no prohibition on Swiss Militia Members buying additional ammunition in gun stores and bringing it home.

http://www.guncite.com/swissgun.html

From your beloved Wikipedia:

The sale of ammunition — including Gw Pat.90 rounds for army issue assault rifles — is subsidized by the Swiss government and made available at the many shooting ranges patronized by both private citizens and members of the militia. There is a regulatory requirement that ammunition sold at ranges must be used there. However, David Kopel and Stephen D'Andrilli say "the rule is barely known and almost never obeyed".[1] Indeed, while the sale of non-hunting ammunition is registered at the dealer if purchased at a private store, ammunition purchased at a shooting range is not

See the part in italics. You can buy 5.56mm ammo in the gun store. You can buy American AR-15's in a gun store. They are the same caliber as the Swiss service rifle.

You can not buy any of these in the People Safety Gun Free Zone of North Korea.

Posted by Mike Puckett at April 29, 2007 12:08 PM

Edit to add: You can buy American AR-15's in a SWISS gun store.

Posted by Mike Puckett at April 29, 2007 12:35 PM

When are you moving to one of your Gun Control Utopias like Zimbabwe or North Korea?

Zimbabwe has turned the corner on gun control. Youth militias roam the country. Mugabe doesn't care about gun control, he cares about land control, and he doesn't mind arming children for that purpose.

It is (probably) true that North Korea has strict gun control. But then, so does South Korea.

All the sourced evidence I have found thus far

All of the sourced evidence that you have found so far goes back to David Kopel or similar. That includes, in the particular, the passage from Wikipedia that you quote. Wikipedia is just a tool. It's no better than its sources. Now, David Kopel may be worth reading, but there is more to life than just him, or even just him and similar authors.

If you want independent documentation, here is some. Switzerland is considering banning home storage of army ammunition. Why would they bother if you can just buy your own ammunition anyway? The debate would make no sense if your interpretation (Kopel's interpretation) of Swiss laws were accurate.

http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/search/detail/Gun_debate_sets_sights_on_army_ammo.html?siteSect=881&sid=7724489&cKey=1176881124000

Posted by at April 29, 2007 12:37 PM

"If you want independent documentation, here is some. Switzerland is considering banning home storage of army ammunition. Why would they bother if you can just buy your own ammunition anyway? The debate would make no sense if your interpretation (Kopel's interpretation) of Swiss laws were accurate."

Who said laws had to make sense? Why are you arguing the Swiss cannot keep private ammo at home? I have not seen one scintillia of evidence to support that position.

I however, have found you an non-Koppel source. If your Nork ISP will allow you to acces it:

Lots of good stuff here!

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/swiss/faq/

"About ammunition: There is no restriction, in the sense that you can
buy whatever you find on the market without any quantity
limitation. If you buy ten tons of 9mm Para, I am however sure that
the police will become highly interested by your activities.

Private companies can import ammunition freely, but they must have a
pretty serious material and financial base.

Note that individuals can import privately batches of 500 rounds of
ammo."

Posted by Mike Puckett at April 29, 2007 12:56 PM

Why are you arguing the Swiss cannot keep private ammo at home?

They can, if they have a license for it, and if it doesn't fit the Army issued machine guns. That's the either-or of Swiss gun laws.

None of this is American-style RKBA. In Switzerland, registration is said to be "just a formality". In the US, registration is said to lead to confiscation. I haven't said anything about whether Swiss laws are good or bad. The point is that the laws in Switzerland aren't the laws that you favor for Americans, especially not in the category of handguns.

Posted by at April 29, 2007 01:35 PM

"and if it doesn't fit the Army issued machine guns. That's the either-or of Swiss gun laws."

Bullshit, you have offered zero proof to back this assertion.

Posted by Mike Puckett at April 29, 2007 01:41 PM

If you weren't such an anonomous coward, I would wager you a large sum of money over the outcome of the validity of your assertion. No where in the Swiss code is the possession of military caliber weapons or ammunition listed. You are assuming and making stuff up.

I can get a definitive answer on this and I am quite certan of the outcome. Why don't you uncloack and stand on your assertion if you are so confident yoyu know more than the rest of the world?

Posted by Mike Puckett at April 29, 2007 01:46 PM

Bullshit, you have offered zero proof to back this assertion.

There is no need to curse, Mike. It is my reading of the available direct evidence, namely the fact that the machine guns themselves are owned by the Army and that the Swiss are considering ending home-stored Army ammunition. But we can take it as a valid research question. You can buy your own ammunition in Switzerland (if you have a license); can you also buy ammunition that fits Swiss Army machine guns?

Probably that helpful Swiss software developer, Marc Schae fer, could answer the question.

Posted by at April 29, 2007 01:53 PM

"You can buy your own ammunition in Switzerland (if you have a license); can you also buy ammunition that fits Swiss Army machine guns?"

Well, one can own other Semi-auto only 5.56mm weapons as a Swiss civilian pretty freely such as American made AR-15's Mini-14's German G-36's. It would sure be logical that one could own ammo for them.

That SwissFAQ I posted pretty much posts all the Swiss strictures and caliber prohibition is not one of them. I have IMed a friend of mine who was once well placed in the Austrian Military would be familiar with the Swiss laws.

Here is something you might find intersting in the meantime:

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:K2ybnL6X_m4J:www.ar15.com/lite/topic.html%3Fb%3D8%26f%3D49%26t%3D209732+swiss+own+ar-15&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us

Posted by Mike Puckett at April 29, 2007 02:01 PM

Just a voice from Switzerland itself.
1) Buying ammo: you are able to buy as much ammo of what kind/caliber (unless explosive) you want, as long as you are _able_ to get a "Waffenerwerbschein". That means as long as you are sane and not a felon -> no problem

2) owning machineguns: Depending on the Kanton (State)getting a permit is easy to very difficult. Being a collector certainly helps this.
(I only own the government given assault rifle)

3) owning Mortars/RPG's/Explosives: see 2) but can definitly be difficult

4) Buying Rifles. For sport/hunting/single shot Rifles and swiss ordonannce repeaters you don't need any license, you need to 18 years old, and that's it.
For Semiautomatics a "Waffenerwerbsschein" is needed, IF you buy from a store. Private sales don't need one.

PeaceDevil

Posted by PeaceDevil at April 29, 2007 02:47 PM

Thank you PeaceDevil. This has gone in circles long enough.

Posted by Mike Puckett at April 29, 2007 02:50 PM

I think it's hilarious that anonymous gun control crusader started out by proclaiming how harmless Swiss handgun registration is, how it doesn't lead to confiscation, yet later in the debate he brought up recent political developments in Switzerland driven by some factions in Switzerland, the factions who want to ban handguns and 'end Swiss gun culture'!

So anonymous gun control crusader, how is it again that registration does not lead to confiscation?

HAH!

Posted by Brad at April 29, 2007 03:24 PM

Overview of current politics

Recently there were sadly some family dramas where the killer used his army weapon.
That spawned off a heated debate about whether the army should still give the guns and ammo to the soldiers.
The last voting said narrowly no to this.

so we're back at the beginning:
the extreme left wants to ban all guns.
the left, doesn't want armed an armed militia.
the middle is looking for voters .
the right, wants to keep it as is, or tweaks it like "gun yes/ammo no"
the extreme right: well guess it...

Posted by PeaceDevil at April 29, 2007 03:39 PM

how harmless Swiss handgun registration is, how it doesn't lead to confiscation,

I never gave it as my opinion that firearm registration in Switzerland is harmless, or to use the phrase, "just a formality". That's for those who want to say that Switzerland is a pro-gun utopia that the United States should strive to be. Utopia or not, it is less pro-gun than the US itself in several key respects.

Iraq, on the other hand, really is more pro-gun than the US.

As for buying ammunition, that question is actually beside the point. The real question is whether it is legal to load the Army assault rifle with your own ammunition, off of the firing range. The Wikipedia page says that it isn't; it says "A militiaman on his way home from mandatory shooting practice, taking care of an errand with his service weapon slung over his shoulder. Carrying ammunition is strictly forbidden.". That particular statement is not cited, but if it is true that carrying ammunition in the Army assault rifle is strictly forbidden, then it means, plain and simple, that the Army assault rifle is not for personal use.

Maybe the Swiss participant in the discussion can say whether it is correct that carrying ammunition in the Army assault rifle, off range, is strictly forbidden.

Posted by at April 29, 2007 08:27 PM

Ah now I see. It all boils down to anonymous gun crusader's straw man about RKBA. The straw man of RKBA = every person must have a gun. How typical.

Only a strawman as stupid and ignorant as that is adequate to buttress the inane and reckless anti-gun goal of stripping away from everyone the right to armed self-defense. Note how anything short of an anti-gun utopia is supposed to inevitably lead to barbarism, anarchy and chaos. How typical.

I find the fear demonstrated by anonymous of his fellow citizens telling of the mindset of anti-gun crusaders.

Posted by Brad at April 29, 2007 09:07 PM

The straw man of RKBA = every person must have a gun.

I never said any such thing. What I said is that an American precept of RKBA is that registration is tantamount to confiscation. That is also an Iraqi precept and (effectively) a Liberian precept. The Swiss see it differently: some think think that registration isn't confiscation, others that at least confiscating the Army's own weapons isn't so bad.

Posted by at April 29, 2007 09:13 PM

Anonymous has a Utopia where all the arms are in Government hands. It is called North Korea.

Posted by Mike Puckett at April 30, 2007 08:07 AM

Post a comment