Transterrestrial Musings

Comments

You can build your own from scratch, then customise it into oblivion.

At which point I stopped reading or caring about this guy's opinion. The '80s are over, get a life, dude. No one "builds their own from scratch" except losers who "hate" other computers.

Posted by Raoul Ortega at February 6, 2007 09:16 AM

"Macs are glorified Fisher-Price activity centres for adults"

Priceless.

I find the cachet of cutesiness and toyishness I see in Apples a big turnoff, but don't really care if others prefer them (any more than I care what someone else's preferred car brand is). What *is* annoying is the cultishness (which this thread will shortly be swamped in) of those Mac users who buy into the "lifestyle" aspects. Computers are tools, why make more of it than that?

Posted by T.L. James at February 6, 2007 09:24 AM

"Computers are tools, why make more of it than that?"

True, but a tool should just work. I never had to go through a dozen meaningless error screens when I booted my tablesaw or search for a new driver when I changed drillbits.

I switched over to Macs in grad school because of a series of bad Windows machines. After recently working with my wife's brand new Dell laptop, I still don't feel the need to go back.

Also, I just hate that "I built it myself" BS. What, you want bigger geek points. I haven't had to build a decent PC since 1993. Turns out they make them for you now...at a price probably better than you could get buying the parts separately. (sorry, pet peeve.)

Posted by Greg at February 6, 2007 09:56 AM

I've built PCs (in fact, built the one I use at home now). I've used Macs since OS 6. I've been there and done that on both sides.

This guy's just a tired, boring troll.

(One button mouse. Cute. Mighty Mouse? Support for third-party mice with three buttons/wheels since the first version of OSX? Yeah.

One wonders how he thinks a "proper" computer works, if Macs aren't that. Evidently Unix isn't a sign of a proper computer?

Will he complain about how slow LocalTalk is next?)

Posted by Sigivald at February 6, 2007 10:00 AM

You can build..

The point is that you CAN. Some of us still do build our own. If there wasn't still this market, then why are a thousand companies still selling bare bones systems and parts? Why are companies bothering to manufacture and sell newer more powerful innards for the PC if no one is building their own or upgrading?

And no I don't hate "other" computers. First off the "other" computers, consists of a pretty small group, don't you think? It's not like their are PCs and Macs and a dozen others out there. I simply like the flexibility to change things when I want to. It's the same reason I drive older cars. I want to be able to work on them.

In the world of the computer, there are usually two kinds of users. The PC people are the mini-van, 40 hour per week world, who see their PC as just a tool to do a job. Macs people are town car, trust fund elitists, who tend to be tools. There's a reason why PC people refer to Mac people as Mac Bigots, and this thread has and probably will continue to show it.

Posted by Steve at February 6, 2007 10:27 AM

OUr estimed writer probably snapped with all the downer news about Vista lately.

Either that or he drives an old beater car from the 70s. One you can rebuild the engine on and keep running forever with a bit of sweat and a lot of cash. None of these modern sealed engines that require specialized equipment to fix and their much higher gas mileage for our boy, those are Fisher Priced autos for the Queer Eye crowd.

I can understand hating the cultish attitude that surrounds the Mac but the box itself is inanimate. A tool. Just like our buddy.

Posted by rjschwarz at February 6, 2007 10:33 AM

Funny, I thought the pastel UI of Windows XP was the thing deserving the 'Fisher-Price' moniker.

Posted by Paul Dietz at February 6, 2007 10:54 AM

Dark blue isn't a pastel, Paul.

Posted by T.L. James at February 6, 2007 11:16 AM

First some background, I just built my own PC and have been using Vista since RTM in November.

I think the author in the Guardian comments needs help. Macs are fine, and so are the people who use them. I think it really is a preference. Yet, I am inclined to agree that Mac users tend to hold on to some superiority that doesn't exist. For example, comments such as:

No one "builds their own from scratch" except losers who "hate" other computers.
and
Also, I just hate that "I built it myself" BS.

are foolish and not far removed from the original author's "I hate Macs" line. Steve explains the reality very well, so I'll refer to his comment for an understanding of my viewpoint. Personally, I built my PC to do a specific tasks that I couldn't find at a reasonable price from a built machine or a Mac. This occurs regularly in most businesses I've been associated with.

Posted by Leland at February 6, 2007 11:41 AM

"Computers are tools, why make more of it than that?"

Which is why I use a Mac. Not a zealot - when something better comes along I'll happily adopt that.

Posted by brian at February 6, 2007 11:41 AM

Apple makes some good computers. I don't happen to own a Mac and have not used one for years but that's just a personal choice. The last time I used a Mac, I got the impression that it was an overpriced computer with training wheels that I couldn't take off. No doubt that's an out of date impression.

I buy and use computers to do specific things. Other people chose their computers depending on the kinds of things they want to do. While Macs are good computers, they're not the best platform for the kinds of things that I do. If I were heavy into multi-media development and the sorts of things that the Mac does best, then that'd be the kind of computer I'd buy.

As for building your own computer, I have not done that for years but several of my coworkers do it all the time. To say that no one does it anymore is simply inaccurate.

Posted by Larry J at February 6, 2007 11:50 AM

The last time I used a Mac, I got the impression that it was an overpriced computer with training wheels that I couldn't take off. No doubt that's an out of date impression.

After having one, and watching non-IT guys work with theirs, I have concluded that a Mac is two things

* A computer for non-computer guys to use to get things done.

* A unix workstation with a really slick interface that IT guys can fiddle with. Or ignore and get things done.

But I'll stop - wouldn't want to be classed with the zealots that y'all are sure are lurking and waiting to pounce.

Posted by brian at February 6, 2007 12:00 PM

Ah yes. Nothing like the voice of reason....

Posted by Kevin Adams at February 6, 2007 12:13 PM

This sounds similar to the rant that Bill Gates went on last week, whining about the latest Mac ads. Even though he hadn't seen the ads, Gates went on and on about how Apple was outright lying in their ads because they're "really cool."

Sounds to me like just about every rant and whine by anyone who has an inferiority complex...

Like most things, Macs are better at some things, PCs are better at others. But now that OS X is running on Intel hardware, it probably won't be long before people can "build their own mac" again, just like the PC and *nix crowd.

Posted by John Breen III at February 6, 2007 01:08 PM

My last two computers were laptops, and you can't really build them, so they were customized Dells. My next desktop will be handbuilt, mainly so I can tune what goes into it. The inexpensive boxes you get premade from the major guys have so-so motherboards typically. It's where they save on money, which is fine for office work and Solitaire, but not as good for high-end gaming and software development.

Posted by Rick C at February 6, 2007 02:09 PM

Funny, I thought the pastel UI of Windows XP was the thing deserving the 'Fisher-Price' moniker.

I agree Paul, but you left out that it looked like it was designed to appeal to 11 year old girls. All the cutsie icons kill me. I haven't seen Vista yet, are they gone?

Posted by Steve at February 6, 2007 02:14 PM

Traditionally, Apple builds hooks for their OS into their BIOS. I don't know if that's still the case with their current systems and OS X but I'd be surprised if they changed. If it's still true, then you'd need to have access to an Apple BIOS. It takes more than simply having the same CPU.

Back in the late 1980s, there were a few popular computers based on the Motorola 68000 chip - the Mac, a couple Ataris and the Amiga. One innovator developed a board that could hold an Apple BIOS, allowing the Atari (IIRC) to run Mac software. Apple reportedly took a very dim view of that and worked to shut that company down.

Posted by Larry J at February 6, 2007 02:33 PM

I usually roll my own, as my computing needs change from year to year. I can upgrade/modify, sometimes drastically, my PC. I can't do that with a Mac. Also, have you ever tried to upgrade your Mac's hard drive? I have. It can be done, but Apple doesn't make it easy to be your own tech.

Posted by Rich at February 6, 2007 02:46 PM

Traditionally, Apple builds hooks for their OS into their BIOS

(nitpick) What apple uses for BIOS is really Open Firmware.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Firmware

(/nitpick)

Posted by brian at February 6, 2007 02:49 PM

The New macs have a 2 button mouse, i don't know what the
author is talking about.

Posted by anonymous at February 6, 2007 03:43 PM

The New macs have a 2 button mouse, i don't know what the
author is talking about.

Posted by anonymous at February 6, 2007 03:43 PM

As a long-time Mac user, a long-time UNIX sysadmin, and a long-time at-work user of Windows, I suspect that I have a pretty good overview of various computer systems and how they work. Most of the debate that still happens about computers is the same debate that was happening in 1993, and the reality is that the terms have changed.

Macs now are PCs with better default hardware and less ability to customize. If you are a bare-bones lowest-cost user, and your needs are web surfing and email, you probably want the cheapest box you can find, and that's a knock-off PC with a crappy keyboard and monitor. If you need a highly-tuned, customized system with massive expansion options and the best possible performance for some given task, you probably want to build your own PC and it will cost you an arm and a leg, or two arms, your choice. If you have custom software only available for a particular system, you want to use that system, whatever it is.

For everyone else, the reality is that both PCs and Macs can handle what you want to do. You get more for your money (and it's easier to use and less annoying into the bargain) with a Mac, but if you're used to the Windows paradigm and don't want to learn a new one, the Windows systems will handle your needs just fine. It's just a choice of what your comfort levels and annoyance tolerances are.

For myself, I use a Mac when I'm not at work, and WinXP when I am at work. WinXP because it's the only option, not because it's particularly necessary for my job (though it is necessary for the company to have a single supported desktop OS platform). Mac because it's smoother, doesn't get in my way, and is much easier to program for.

The religious wars over OSs, complete with obligatory "now the cultists will beat up on me" and "you deserve it, too," just bore me to tears.

Posted by Jeff Medcalf at February 6, 2007 03:47 PM

I switched over to Macs in grad school because of a series of bad Windows machines.

I switched over to PC for exactly the same reason. The motherboards used to die every other month and it took Apple six weeks to fix them.

Dell is nice. Six hour onsite service.

Posted by Adrasteia at February 6, 2007 04:59 PM

One innovator developed a board that could hold an Apple BIOS, allowing the Atari (IIRC) to run Mac software. Apple reportedly took a very dim view of that and worked to shut that company down.

IIRC, the Atari was also faster and retailed for about half the price.

Posted by Adrasteia at February 6, 2007 05:02 PM

I had and Amiga with the Mac emulator. I used the emulator to run sofware for college work. It did a pretty good job for that and the Amiga side played far better games.

Posted by Mike Puckett at February 6, 2007 05:21 PM

I like my Vic-20.

Posted by Ed Minchau at February 6, 2007 05:37 PM

I could have ignored this whole thread except for this:

"In the world of the computer, there are usually two kinds of users. The PC people are the mini-van, 40 hour per week world, who see their PC as just a tool to do a job. Macs people are town car, trust fund elitists, who tend to be tools. There's a reason why PC people refer to Mac people as Mac Bigots, and this thread has and probably will continue to show it."

I don't drive a mini-van and I don't work 40 hours a week. I drive a Jetta and work 60. I use a MAC - learned on system 3 - and I use a PC when I need to. I don't think anything about PC users - some of ny best friends are PC users. I don't even have a snarky insulting nickname for them. But I can think of a few for this guy.

Posted by Stephen Macklin at February 6, 2007 06:10 PM

I once critized the Mac in front of a friend who was a Mac person. He became so upset that he no longer wanted to be my friend. Based on other similar experiences and some of the responses to this thread, I'd say that the personal identification with a stylish machine/concept goes way beyond simple product loyalty. It has, in many cases, become a kind of neurosis. I don't know how Mac has managed to do this, but the Ipod phenomena should give us a clue. Whoever hires Apple's advertising department could create an army of techno zombies in order to rule the world. Perhaps that's Job's plan.

Posted by K at February 6, 2007 06:32 PM

Hmm...

Looking around my office right now I see two Mac Desktops (1 G5 and one G3), and one Mac laptop.

They are tools, really good tools. I like my Mac better because I like my Mac better. I use my PC when I need to use my PC because it runs software my Mac (like Satellite Tool Kit) won't run (yet).

Never argue over tools.

Posted by Dennis Ray Wingo at February 6, 2007 07:15 PM

Stephen Macklin, you are not the guy I'm talking about. You, like some of the rest us, have and can use both systems. In my analogy I was talking about the dyed in the wool, rather see their sister in a whorehouse than touch a PC type. THAT to me is a Mac Bigot, and all of them I've ever met, fit the "tool" category.

But call me names if you want, I don't cry easy, and you won't be the first person on this blog to do so. Actually I guess I should have qualified my blurb with IMHO, but I thought this particular thread leaned toward opinion over fact, so I left it off.

Posted by Steve at February 6, 2007 07:20 PM

For the record, my last two books (ISBN 1843401886 and ISBN 0970383703) were written on Macs -- a Power PC and a Bondi G3, respectively.

I have nothing against Windows. XP was fine. I simply prefer the "feel" of the Mac.

Posted by bchan at February 6, 2007 09:38 PM

Home built systems generally last longer. The individually purchased parts will generally be higher quality then a manufactured box where they may have scrimped and saved. Also if something does go wrong then a home built systems mainboard will have a lower level of component integration. Its easier to replace a broken component without finding yourself in the situation where the entire mainboard has be to replaced.

I just got back from Santa Fe last week and saw several cars up there that had enormous Apple logo stickers on the back of their cars right next to their 'I heart Kucinich' bumper stickers. I'm assuming that the author of this article, since he doesn't really spend a whole lot of timing talking about the technical aspects of each respective OS, is really railing against that subset of Mac users who think they get it and the rest of the stupid masses are just getting duped.

My experience has been that productivity people us WinXp. The design and sys admin guys get into Sun Stations and the various flavors of Unix running on Wintel. And the marketing folks like to brandish their Macs.

Posted by Josh Reiter at February 6, 2007 10:43 PM

...that subset of Mac users who think they get it and the rest of the stupid masses are just getting duped.

This is the crowd I was referring to as being bigots.

Posted by Steve at February 7, 2007 04:30 AM

I used to have a Windows PC for the main home computer. It was an HP machine, and had repeated hardware issues (failed motherboard, two failed disks; I suspect thermal issues). Replaced it with a Mac Mini and haven't had any trouble since, (except it plays WoW way too slowly :)). Not having to worry so much about viruses and trojans is an enormous plus.

Macs for a long time were held back by inadequate processors (as the x86 world pulled ahead of the Power PC), but now they've switched the speed difference is gone.

Posted by Paul Dietz at February 7, 2007 07:44 AM

Although I've used PCs for many years, I might possibly be amenable to trying out a MAC, were it not for one major factor. Why in heaven's name did MAC keyboard designers locate the raised indicator nibs (for facilitating finger placement) on the 'D' and 'K' keys, instead of on the 'F' and 'J' keys, as God intended? Until that abomination is corrected, I must remain a PC adherent.

Posted by Bruce Lagasse at February 8, 2007 01:24 PM

Bruce: you can use a PC-style keyboard on a Mac, you know. That's what that home machine of mine has on it. It also has non-Apple monitor, mouse, printer, and speakers, although this was more because I had them sitting around than because of any antipathy to Apple's products (except that silly one button mouse).

Posted by Paul Dietz at February 8, 2007 03:00 PM

Paul - As you may have surmised, my post was somewhat tongue-in-cheek; however, I thank you for your suggestions.

Posted by Bruce Lagasse at February 8, 2007 10:24 PM

YES, LET US ALL NOW SYMPATHIZE WITH THE PLIGHT OF "ASTRONAUT STRESS SYNDROME"!! Those poor astronauts - what a STRESSFUL existence they lead and how little do the rest of us understand the grueling life that is endured by such a misunderstood subculture of our society. They are scrutinized to the hilt and have little time for meeting their interpersonal relationship needs. What a hellish existence they must have. It is especially difficult for Lisa Nowak since she is persecuted by NASA - no time for her children or her emotional wants and needs. Who wouldn't crack under the strain and torture of being denied ones' most basic rights? I say that NASA and the government must start an astronaut awareness support group so that the general population at large can become sensitized to the hardship and cruelties that this subgroup minority is relegated to. How many of us "normals" really know what it is like to be subjected to the rigors of being an astronaut, especially female ones? It is high time and long overdue that we, as a society, must recognize this as drain on our resources and end the suffering that has persisted from one astronaut generation to the next.

Posted by Ignatz Toecheese at February 9, 2007 12:53 PM

Why in heaven's name did MAC keyboard designers locate the raised indicator nibs (for facilitating finger placement) on the 'D' and 'K' keys, instead of on the 'F' and 'J' keys, as God intended?

The keyboard on my Macbook Pro has the nubs on F and J.

Until that abomination is corrected, I must remain a PC adherent.

You can find a good deal on used G4 systems now if you shop around. No need to splurge on the expensive stuff.

Posted by Brian Dunbar at February 9, 2007 01:07 PM

Post a comment