A long but interesting disquisition, by Christopher Hitchens.

He makes an interesting point that I'd never thought about before--that the male equivalent of childbirth for women is war.

We are too funny. On occasion, I am myself hilarious. Except when it comes to the Three Stooges. But this is the distinction that I think eludes Hitchens - we tend to favor wit over farce. I know that for me I can't imagine being with someone romantically that I could not make laugh.

We are too funny.

Well, Hitchens doesn't think you're too funny. He thinks you're not funny enough. ;-)

Better phrasing would have been. "Women aren't funny? We are, too."

On occasion, I am myself hilarious.

Consider the possibility that you're not necessarily the best judge of that. :-)

Seriously, I don't consider myself a good judge of what I do that's funny and not. Sometimes I'll write a piece that reportedly has people rolling in the Internet aisles, that I didn't think was that big a deal, and other times I'll do one that I think is great that gets almost no response.

No accounting for taste. Or sense of humor.

Also, as Hitchens pointed out, he's not claiming that all men are funny and no women are. As is the case with all these men/women things (like math ability), he's describing statistics.

But this is the distinction that I think eludes Hitchens - we tend to favor wit over farce

He did make this distinction. Quote: Men will laugh at almost anything, often precisely because it is—or they are—extremely stupid. Women aren't like that.

I was kinda thinking that myself, Ilya, but I was trying to be polite. To heck with that.

Jane, I'm calling you out. Did you actually read the piece?

I ask, because I know that it's long. And because what you wrote makes me think not. It comes off as more of a response to the title, rather than the piece itself.

Being the outstanding Transterrestrial citizen you are, I know that if you didn't, you'll 'fess up.

(How's that for Jewish guilting?)

I did read the piece. And I figured I'd be forgiven "we are too funny" as analogous to "We're funny! We are so! ".. much the same way I took your meaning on "the male equivalent of childbirth for women is war." with the two poles of the analogy for men confusingly placed at opposite ends of the sentence. But I'm quibbling.

I guess my point, more seriously, is a definitional one. Humor has many forms - wit and farce being in my view the main two categories. The essence of both of them is to force an incongruity between what is expected and what is delivered.

A female preference for "witty" over "farcical" isn't really a sign of increased intelligence, as Hitch seems to suggest in the sentence right before the one Ilya quoted. It's a sign that we appreciate humor differently.

"that the male equivalent of childbirth for women is war."

As someone curently trying to pass a Kidney Stone, I have a differing opinion of what is the male equivilant of childbirth.

Jane,

Do you REALLY not like the Three Stooges? I genuinely find it beyond comprehension that someone could not! The hours of simple enjoyment those three (fivish, mabey six) knuckleheads have provided me.

Jane, you have not denied Hitchens' assertion: he asserts the quantity of female humor is different from that of the male, not the quality. I agree with him. Moreover, whenever I've mentioned it to other men, they find it uncomplicated and easy to agree, too.

Furthermore, as the most obvious corroboration of the thesis -- and I'm surprised Hitchens didn't adduce it -- just take a look at our popular media, and ask which sex among the audience is obviously more comfortable with being laughing and being laughed at. Which sex is more often the goofball in TV ads, sit-coms or the movies? One hardly needs to ask. Just compare Budweiser commercials to contraceptive pill commercials. Clearly the male audience is much more tolerant of humor at its own expense.

What I find a little odd is that your defensiveness on the issue is quite typical of the women with whom I've discussed this thesis. But why be defensive? Were Hitchens to assert that men enjoy professional football more, few women would have the urge to uncomfortably deny or spin the issue, squirm or get irritated.

Yet with humor it seems to touch some kind of nerve. Even Hitchens is careful to put in some sexual-politics "cover" in his column, asserting that men might well laugh more just because they are more often stupid, or willing to make fun of someone being stupid. (In other words, maybe we're just goofier and more insensitive, and that's why we laugh more.)

This smells a lot like a the Sensitive Guy's self-deprecating effort to avoid having to sleep on the sofa after accidentally raising one of those verboten topics, the list of which every man learns after being married for a few years. Clearly Hitchens himself is afraid that his female readers might, er, not have any sense of humor over his thesis, so to speak.

So why is it a sore spot with the female, the suggestion that where humor is concerned women are more often consumer than producer?

Oh, and I think Hitchens' suggestion that the male equivalent of childbirth is war is dumb. There is very little overlap between the social purpose, general feelings of, or effect on the psyche of participants of war and childbirth. This sounds like thoughtless pop-psych men are from Mars, women are from Venus thesis that sounds cool in print, but means zip when you think it through carefully.

I don't think there is a male "equivalent" to childbirth. It doesn't make sense that there should be. Women are clearly different from men, fundamentally, and it is very reasonable that the most deeply female behaviour and experience there is, is completely unlike anything in male behaviour or experience. I mean, geez, if it's not the psychology of childbirth that is most responsible for making the sexes different, what the heck would be?

Of course women are funny. Ever see a size 14 try to get into a size 10 girdle? Snort... ;->

Mike, you would probably appreciate this little piece of middle ground, where wit meets farce: As I Lay Kvetching.

Faulkner parody, and maybe it illustrates Hitchens' point. I thought it was funny, anyway.

Aleta, I did giggle at that image. Seen that more than once. That's why we have vanity sizing now in women's clothes, where my mother's size four little black dress now seems to fit a size zero - it sure doesn't fit me, the tag notwithstanding.

I'm preparing for the first couple of weeks of January at my gym, where all the New Years' Resolution people show up and work out for a couple of weeks. I think that's funny.

Hmm. This might be relevant:

"Wit destroys eroticism and eroticism destroys wit, so women must choose between taking lovers and taking no prisoners."
- Florence King

I'm also reminded of a scene from the 'Alien Nation' TV series, where the human police detective had a growing relationship with one of the female 'Newcomers' who had a nursing(?) job at an area hospital. They were watching TV at his place, and she was quite turned off by the Three Stooges (and similar slapstick). Disney's 'The Love Bug.' (Herbie, the way-too-cute Volkswagen [an assertion that may say something about myself]) was *her* idea of good humor.

Wether that was true of just her, of most females of her kind, or of the Newcomers in general, was never made very clear...

Frank, thank you! I remember that scene - a friend I used to audition for stuff with (a fellow redhead - often the niche product in Hollywood which means you show up at the same cattle calls) named Terri Treas had the line. "I do not understand, Matt. They are not very good carpenters." It was a cute scene.

As for wit destroying eroticism? Well, not if you do them both right!

"As someone curently trying to pass a Kidney Stone..."

Now that made me laugh. Not because it's funny. It's more of a schadenfreude thing.

"Now that made me laugh. Not because it's funny. It's more of a schadenfreude thing."

Don't worry Roger, everyone gets theirs. Yours might be a bladder full of gallstones, however. In the grand scheme of things, a kideny stone is not that bad as far as lasting damage.

Mine however, is much better. I feel better today than in three weeks. I am begining to think the 50 gallons of water did the trick.

"Men will laugh at almost anything, often precisely because it is—or they are—extremely stupid."

Dogs Playing Poker. I rest my case.

I have an S.O. that adores the Sex in the City series. So, as a present I got her the entire collection of episodes on DVD. In so doing I sealed my fate as to having the experience of seeing every episode of Sex in the City. I can certainly agree with the assertion that what women view as funny is entirely different then men. I hate to break it to you womens, but men don't find fashion humor that funny. Such as, we don't laugh at the thought of wearing 'x' colored garmet with 'y' styled shoes. Now Carrie would occasionally let out the funny "har, har" one liner but it would usually just be one every season such as, "Miranda dated an over-eater and he over-ate-her". Miranda would occasionaly be funny with her sarcasm, "Should men get a cookie every time they successfully identify an emotion 'I'm pissed off' Ta-Da!". But as for Charlotte and the blonde whore.....*crickets chirp*

However, for women to say that they laugh at wit but yawn at farce is untrue. In fact, women generally laugh the most at impersonation which is a farcical form of comedy. I've had a gaggle of women rolling when I have impersonated someone. Or, pantomimed a modern dance routine in a exaggerated manner. Or, in my case, I'm very proficient at making a face like a 5 year old asking for a cookie. Thats almost sure to get a chuckle and a cheek pinched for being oh so gosh darn cuuuuuuuute.

I would say that women draw the line at physical humor that has some type of violent underpinning. I mean, guys will even laugh out at a boxing match if someone gets dropped with a straight shot, "Holy crap, *haha*, that guy got knocked the f- out"(Chris Tucker voice).

I do have to remain critical of exactly what Christopher H. deems as funny, though. Sandra Bernhard is funny? I mean if being ugly and annoying is funny, then I guess that might be the case. In fact, the only reason she is probably famous, and it sounds like Chris has fallen into this trap as well, is the tired-head analogy that Jewish=funny. Perhaps I've just grown jaded toward Jewish humor seeing as it has been thrust upon us from every level of modern entertainment.

Now to end my rant I will leave thee to go see Sacha Baron Cohen's new movie.

I've often asserted that, for about a year between September 2001-2002, Margaret Cho was funny.

Now, so she says, "she has chosen to stand and fight". She's unfunny by her own decision.

There's a small problem with the link. It has an errant double quote at the end. I'm using FF 2.0, and what happens is that only the first page of the article shows up with no way to see the other pages. Taking the quote off gets the whole article.

Ever see a size 14 try to get into a size 10 girdle?

Girdles still exist?

Unfortunately the closest male counterpart to girdles - neckties - are still with us.

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