Here's a depressing story. The rape-condoning Aussie Imam retains support not only in his country (he's lived in Australia for almost a quarter of a century, but doesn't speak any English), but in Britain as well:

Al-Hilaly, in his sermon, also caused offence by saying women were mostly to blame for adultery. 'When it comes to adultery, it's 90 per cent the woman's responsibility,' he said. 'Why? Because a woman possesses the weapon of seduction.'

Waleed Aly, a spokesman for the Islamic Council of Victoria, condemned al-Hilali and called for his resignation, saying his views sought to normalize immoral sexual behaviour.

'We would have liked to have seen some form of fairly strong censure just given the magnitude and the gravity of the comments,' Aly said.

But other prominent Australian Muslims refused to criticise the mufti. Imam Abdul Jalil Sajid, the chairman of the Muslim Council of Great Britain, who is visiting Australia, sprang to the mufti's defence. 'I know he is one of the greatest Muslim scholars on earth and Australia is blessed with him,' Sajid said.

This is a culture that is simply incompatible with a liberal democracy.

If Al-Hilaly were right about uncovered women naturally attracting rape, the beach blanket bingo at Fort Lauderdale during Spring Break would be a lot more prevalent.

This guy is straight out the 19th century, but
honestly he sounds a lot like some fo the extremist
evangelical preachers, or even the more annoying
hasidic jews in Israel.

Since when has an 'extreme' evangelical preacher supported rape? Buhler....Buhler.......????? The closest you would find would be Fred Phelps and he is essentially a religion of one.

Ahh...the weak tea of moral equivalence. Breaks down under the slightest bit of light.

I liken this headline to the leading, bleeding headlines out of Iraq. It represents an extreme example. I don't believe it represents the whole.

I know quite a few Islamics from places as disparate as Jordan, Israel, Iran, Bangladesh and Nigeria. Not one would agree with the statements of the Imams in question. These same individuals function happily and integrate seamlessly into what I perceive to be our "culture" and our "liberal democracy".

That's the big problem I have with the anti-islamic rants that are occurring with more frequency on this blog. They are always bashing the other "culture" and saying it doesn't fit with "our culture". Culture varies temporally, geographically, generationally and even from one individual to the next. There is no one overarching, universal culture. The concept of a liberal democracy varies in the same way.

Even if there were a tangible, static culture to defend, what are you proposing we do with the 900 million from the incompatible culture? Ship them off in boxcars to the Yukon Territory? What if there are just too many of them to resettle? Gas them and burn them next?

Also if the culture is incompatible with a liberal democracy, what use is democracy building in Iraq and Afghanistan? What are we sending our nation's finest to die for.

Yes anon there are a few fundamentalist Christians who would agree with Al-Hilaly, a very few.

But there are a few million Muslims who agree with the Al-Hilaly view of women, that is the HUGE difference that idiots ignore.

In addition to what was mentoined by others, the other thing to remember is that your sampling method is EXTREMELY biased. In essence, you are saying "the few muslims that defy their religious leaders and choose to live in the society known as the Great Satan do not tend to agree with their previous religious leaders."

This is not a surprise. The truely telling response is the outcry against this cleric. True, you can find a nut that will say anything - but you can't find a muslim that will publicly disagree with a muslim nut outside of the US and Britain.

Very interesting, that...

Jardinero also ignores the fact that this is the supposed spiritual leader for every Muslim Down Under. Can you imagine the outrage if the head of (say) the American Episcopal Church said such a thing? And I mean among the parishioners, let alone everyone else.

It represents an extreme example. I don't believe it represents the whole.

Of course not all Muslims agree with this moron. The depressing thing is that he has any respect at all anywhere. The truth is that he has a lot of respect. I grew up in Sydney, and to see his smiling face in the paper on the weekend just made me want to throw up.

"Even if there were a tangible, static culture to defend, what are you proposing we do with the 900 million from the incompatible culture?"

Dealing with these extremist is nearly same as dealing with the trolls on here who hammer on their obviously inconsistent messages relentlessly. You can't ignore them because they get to broadcast their message unopposed. You can't eradicate them completely lest you be labeled a monster and bigot. The fact of the matter is there is no easy way to get out of the situation. It takes hard work to deal with hard situations which means we have to find a way to work together.

I have great sympathy for those that are put in the position of power to make such decisions. Its hard to be a President in this day and age. Somebody somewhere is always going to resent your position and actions. Whereas before people would just grumble to the old men gathered around the barbershop nowadays they get to scream into the megaphone that is the internet. Its tough work and not many want to do it which is probably why we get the leaders of this country that we deserve. The fact of the matter is that we have t o continue to beat our drums just as well they beat theirs. The question is who tires of the whole mess first and eventually succumbs. Those looking for equivalence and continue to undermine our message are contibuting to the defeat of our goals from within and are aiding and abetting the enemy in assistance to theirs. You are unwittingly becoming a pawn on their side of the chess board. You can be right and be a loser at the same time.

It's a pretty broad statement to say "this is the supposed spiritual leader for every Muslim Down Under"; I don't think anyone could prove that. There are Imams who preach other than this one. The question I ask our aspiring defenders of western culture and democracy is: Are we supposed to throw out the many for the wretched deeds of the few?

As an aside, anyone who has studied or practiced criminal law should know that in our culture and legal system it was standard practice for rape defendants to claim, as an acceptable defense, that it was the woman's fault. Only in the last twenty years has this defense ceased to hold water with juries. Prior to that it was a pretty reliable way to beat the rap. So if you consider culture to be the things you believe and do, some of our beliefs and legal concepts have not been that far off the mark from Al Hilaly until recently.

what use is democracy building in Iraq and Afghanistan? What are we sending our nation's finest to die for.

The same thing that we sent all those soldiers to die in Japan for. To change the culture. I grew up in Japan (Okinawa, in fact) and the Japanese were far, far worse then the muslims... and they are now a peaceful people, making a positive difference to humanity. And we forced them to make that change...

I heard someone ordering a Chocolate Hilali today.

It's the new term for "Thick Shake". And no Sheik is Thicker than him.

I've worn bathing suits on Bondi Beach. The freaky sheik's comments are repulsive.

I agree with the Imam!!!
Not on the rape part, but on the other one where he compares muslim men to stray cats, predatory animals without the ability to reason or control themselves, savage beasts who roam the streets feeding on meat... WOW!, the imam hit the bullseye. :-)

BTW, shouldn't we conclude that Muslim have the hatemongering powers and that by walking the streets with their muslim vest they are atracting religious hatred from the poor Christian victims of their "provocation"? :-)

Well, we should all do as the Imam says: atack the muslim on the street, they are asking for it! :-)

The question I ask our aspiring defenders of western culture and democracy is: Are we supposed to throw out the many for the wretched deeds of the few?

No. But throwing out those "the few" is crucial. Summarily deporting anyone who openly calls for overthrow of Australian (or British, etc.) constitution and establishing Sharia is a good start. Of course, that would drive them underground, but making them afraid (which they mostr certainly are not now) would be a huge step forward.

And that points to the other crucial step -- enable the non-nutcase Muslims not be afraid. Yes, majority of Muslims living in the West, possibly majority of Muslims everywhere are perfectly peaceful and just want to get on with their lives. But they will not speak out or oppose radical Islamists because such actions are dangerous. And there lies the greatest threat of what I called (in my earlier response to Jardinero1) "latest totalitarian ideology". Most Germans were not enthusiastic Nazis. Most Russians were not crazed Bolsheviks. But they went along because a small but organized, motivated and vicious group can easily dominate a large but passive one. And that's where Jardinero's "900 million" mostly are -- unwilling allies of the Islamofascists, but allies nonethless.

And part of the problem is Western Europe's unwillingness (inability?) to REALLY assimilate its immigrants. Notice that there is very little Islamist propaganda in US, despite freedom of speech laws actually more broad than in (for example) Britain. In part that's because Muslim community in US is not nearly as alienated as in Britain or France -- which in turn is because US has a policy of, and over a century of experience in, assimilating immigrants and MAKING them a part of American culture. I emphasized the word "making" because assimilation does not happen by itself -- it takes work. Both on part of the immigrants and on part of the host country. The work Western Europe (I really do not know about Australia) has been unwilling to do -- in fact, has been ideologically opposed to doing.

And unless Mulsim immigrants feel that they really a part of the host nation/culture with all opportunities and protection that goes with it, they will continue to support Islamists, at least tacitly.

Does that answer your question, Jardinero1?

Ah yes, the "Islam isn't like that" folk come out. Did you notice that they never seem to go after "bad Islam", they just attack folks who point at Islamic nutjobs.

Hint - if Islam doesn't fix itself, Islam will be fixed from the outside.