...to the school shooting problem. I predict it won't be adopted, though.

I agree on both counts. It seems a bit absurd to declare schools "gun free grounds" thus assuring any violent criminal a large group of potential victims guaranteed to be unable to defend themselves.

This makes me think of an interesting comment I read once about Dicken's novels. An underlying assumption in many of his stories would have been that anyone who was a gentleman going about would likely have been armed, so any incident had the additional menace or humor which would be involved in recognizing that those involved in the incident were packing. For example, when Mr. Pickwick accidentally goes to bed in the wrong hotel room, he probably had a gun nearby, so it's a happy circumstance that he didn't shoot the supposed intruder into his room who, if memory serves, was a lady. It certainly adds a dimension to the situation.

Okay, not exactly on topic, but interesting...

The problem with the solution is that the teachers themselves consider guns to be bad so even if you could force some to go armed you wouldn't have much of a threat.

Probably this is true about most teachers, but I'd be willing to bet there's quite a few that wouldn't mind carrying. And I don't think it would take a very high percentage of gun-carrying teachers to provide a significant deterrent and even protection for students. Even one or two at a high school might make a big difference, and even not knowing if there might be an armed teacher would be a deterrent. I don't think it would make sense to require teachers to carry guns.

It might also improve the respectful attitude of students. I'm not saying teachers should be waving guns at disrespectful students, but I'd bet that a midschooler or highschooler would think twice about mouthing off to a teacher with a sidearm.

Personally, I prefer that the Administration staff be armed.

Considering the fact that students that are "unbalanced" are usually responsible for violence at schools, aren't we forgetting the number of "unbalanced" teachers? Give the teachers guns and I'll bet you we'll have more shootings, though maybe not more BY students.

My best friend is a teacher and also a CWP holder. He's also a Major in the Army Guard and former SAC security police in the USAF so he's fairly well schooled in weapons handling. I don't think he would have a problem with carrying his sidearm in class if need be, and allowed.

This weeks murdering bastard would not have been stopped an armed teacher. That Amish teacher would not have carried, nor used a gun on another human being.

In all the shooting cases with kids as the shooters, the kids involved were known to fit the profile. Withdrawn, bad grades, drugs, violent video games, acting out before the shootings. The teachers and the students ALL know who they are. Instead of waiting for cops and ambulances, do something proactive, get them help, put them away, whatever it takes to get them off school property before they start killing.

Those two clowns at Columbine shot off guns and milk jug bombs before they killed anybody. Several parents said they knew what was going on, but, "..didn't want to get involved." The ever present call of the modern species, adultus americanus chickenshitus. They all had time to talk to CNN and the networks about gun control though. They are all just as responsible for the shootings as the shooters, IMHO. We're all pushing Designated Drivers, what ever happened to Un-designated Parents? When I was younger, ANY adult could tell you to "be good" or "stop doing that", and God help you if they had to cal your parents!!

We don't need gun control, we need kid control. We need to instill some sense of morals and responsibility in them long before high school. Then maybe we'd have less crime overall, not just in schools.

"Considering the fact that students that are "unbalanced" are usually responsible for violence at schools, aren't we forgetting the number of "unbalanced" teachers? Give the teachers guns and I'll bet you we'll have more shootings, though maybe not more BY students."

What is there in place to currently stop these unbalanced and over 21 years of age teachers from putting a pistol in their briefcase before leaving home and shooting up their classrooms?

Don't tell me they respect the 'sucker disarmentment zone' policy too much.

rj,

Can't say about teachers where you're from. Where I grew up, though, ("flyover" country) nearly every male high school teacher (and some of the female ones) were gun owners and users. The number of teacher absences during the first week of deer season every Fall was something to see. Of course this was all in the days before high school shootings got to be a conference sport.

Steve We don't need gun control, we need kid control. We need to instill some sense of morals and responsibility in them long before high school. Then maybe we'd have less crime overall, not just in schools.

Agreed. But you gotta work with the reality that we have not the one we'd like.

Instilling morals et. al is a function of parents who are informed by the culture. Making it happen the way you want is a long-term project, if it can be done.

In the short-term we will have problems like this.

So yes, morals. But what do we do about the problems we have_now_?

We have a very simple solution to school shootings in Australia. Restrict the availability of guns.

Withdrawn, bad grades, drugs, violent video games

Congratulations. You've just profiled those who commit school shootings as adolescent boys going through puberty.

Brian,
as I said, the teachers and parents know which kids need to be watched. The AUTHORITIES should be contacted. Why is this so hard? If the kids were punching other kids, or setting fires, they'd be stopped. But setting off jug bombs and firing rifles didn't prompt anyone near Columbine to call the cops. There words were, "...we didn't want to get involved." If the world is going to be safe you can't have that attitude. And until ADULTS quit letting this crap occur, it will continue.

Chris,
what I said,
Withdrawn, bad grades, drugs, violent video games

goes much deeper than just puberty. And I think we all know it. Again, let me say, we knew who the crazies were in jr high and high school. The kids need to know there is no "down side" to ratting them out.

That is how we deal with this NOW, preemptively.

There's a very simple way we deal with it over here. We make rifles and pistols very difficult to obtain and licence.

If kids can't find a carbine in their dad's wardrobe, a mass slaughter is going to be a lot more difficult for them to plan.

I say just arm ALL the students. It's the only way to be sure.

One comment I've heard about arming teachers is that the guns are then readily available. The extreme version presented was a student taking a gun from a teacher in the hallway leading to a shooting, though I'm not sure I buy it.

The compromise presented by the assistant principal who disarmed the shooter in Mississippi was to have guns on the premises but locked up. Haven't given it too much thought, but it made sense to me at the time.

We have a very simple solution to school shootings in Australia. Restrict the availability of guns.

After all, restricting the availability of drugs has done so much to keep kids from getting stoned at school...

The Columbine shooters obtained their guns thru violation of US gun laws, and if they hadn't they probably would have made sure the bombs which were meant to produce a massive death toll actually worked.

"We have a very simple solution to school shootings in Australia. Restrict the availability of guns.

Posted by Chris Mann at October 6, 2006 08:17 PM"

And like almost all simple solutions to complex problems, it is wrong.

Gun crime has not decreased in Australia in spite of your Orwellian gun control schemes.

As to school shootings, is see no statistically significant change in those either. There is no evidence that the Tasmanian shooting was anything more that a statistical outlier. Firearms ownership was higher in Australias past and yet school shooting were not more common then as even a weak correlation between gun ownership and school shootings should have shown.

I wonder why in spite of near universal firearms ownership in places like Switzerland and super high ownership of modern military type weapons in places like Finnland, we never read about school shooting in those places?

"http://www.gunsandcrime.org/aussiegc.html"

triticale and Mike both beat me to the punch.

Cris we have a saying here across the pond, "Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns." The Aussies used to laugh at us for that kind of "cowboy attitude", who's laughing now?

"The teachers and the students ALL know who they are. Instead of waiting for cops and ambulances, do something proactive, get them help, put them away, whatever it takes to get them off school property before they start killing."

yeah and "who they are" just happens to be all outcasts, whether or not they are violent. more ostracization and more isolation is not a solution. sure take measures against kids who have a history of being violent, but thats already policy. no policy is gonna prevent all mistakes, but having students and teachers look out for those "weirdos" as though they are the enemy is not gonna help. im sure there are kids in every school who are looked at like that (the ones that teachers and students "know who they are"), but not every school has shootings.

giving guns to teachers wont be a deterrent, as these kids are suicidal anyway, but it might reduce the number of victims. unless the teacher gets shot first it would reduce the number of victims.

Unless the teacher hasn't kept up with their training. Then that glock takes out 17 bystanders.