This is pretty funny (given the proselytizing I've had to recently endure in my Fedora upgrade thread). Be sure to take the poll, too:

What would you do if Macintosh's Witnesses came to your door?

• Just hide and hope they go away.
• Welcome them with open arms and an open node.
• Get down on my knees and praise Jobs!
• Join them in their crusade against those Redmond devils!
• Try to convert them to Linux.
• Nitpick about Macs being more expensive and how you think there's no software for them.
• Put them in the Trash.

That is funny. I'd thought about getting a 'get a mac' shot in, just to irritate you. Guess I missed my opportunity!

Hope all is going well.

Laf

It is funny when a normally rational engineer who has continuing problems with his computer pillories those who have computers with years and years of troublefree service.

I have had one hard disk crash in the last 15 years with a MacIntosh and still to this day have not had a computer failure that I was not able to recover the hardware functionality.

I also have three Pc's in my office running Window's.

I wonder what kind of excuse that you are going to use now that a Mac can run OSX (Unix), Linux, or Windows on a single machine?

You whine about the cost when I have not found one comparably equipped PC for the same cost as my laptop. Get over it Rand, you have committed the cardinal sin of an engineer, letting your emotions overcome the logic of using the best tool for the job.

:)

Dennis

When I am dealing with any Mac person, I'll usually start talking about Linux. Not Fedora but Gentoo, which has pretty much the most user-abuser install in the history of operating systems. I'll mention how every single program, from the OS kernel to "ls" to firefox is freshly compiled on the system prior to actual use. This is a distribution that scares many of my highly technical friends.
This, normally, sets off some sort of alarm bell inside the Mac adherant and they run for their sanity.

It is funny when a normally rational engineer who has continuing problems with his computer pillories those who have computers with years and years of troublefree service.

I guess I have to correct you on this again. I've been running Linux for years, largely without problems.

You whine about the cost when I have not found one comparably equipped PC for the same cost as my laptop.

Let me repeat. The option of buying a new computer is not on the table, so comparisons of cost between one computer and the other are completely meaningless.

Dennis, you were exactly who I had in mind when I posted this cartoon. But don't take it personally... ;-)

Funny, I was thinking of Dennis as well when I posted the same link in a comment to one of the previous episodes in Upgrade Trauma.

Macs and Star Trek are two of the things I enjoy but don't talk about much. That's because the 'public' associates both with Mindless Fanboys, and I'm tired of correcting them.

It's even worse when you meet a Mindless Fanboy...

Laf

Rand I figured that was the case. I really don't take it personally at all. I enjoy my tools, you enjoy your tools, diversity is good in computers as it is elsewhere in life.

What I do find telling is that you have to take that extra step.

I have been using computers since assembly language was new and cool and have used just about all of them. I still know the undocumented octal codes in a Z-80 and still have a working CP/M machine (A Vector III MZ). I just know when to let go of inferior equipment for my day to day uses and move on to the tool that works best for me.

Good luck with that, as Sponge Bob would say.

:)

Dennis

What I do find telling is that you have to take that extra step.

What "extra step" is that? The "extra step" of buying yet another computer? Sorry, can't afford it, and don't need it.

Rand

The "extra step" is to post the anti-mac tirade in the form of a joke as you "did id for me". That usually indicates some need to be vindicated as right.

There are many rejoinders that I can make but frankly don't have the time or energy. I wish you well in making your Linux system work.

I am participating in an Earthquake preparedness drill this weekend in LA, along with the civil air patrol, USAF reserve, and the State of California Office of Emergency services. There will be a simulated loss of all terrestrial communications services at 1:00 pm on Saturday and our system (www.assurecom.com) will be the sole means of communications and transfer of images taken by civil air patrol cameras. Should be a lot of fun and I will have my Mac laptop running the whole thing, as well as neworking a group of Windows machines.

They just work, what more is there to say?

Dennis

The "extra step" is to post the anti-mac tirade in the form of a joke as you "did id for me". That usually indicates some need to be vindicated as right.

Dennis, that was not an "anti-Mac tirade." I have nothing against Macs (other than I haven't had any pleasant experience in their use). I wish all who use them well, and hope that Apple stays in business to keep big Redmond on their toes. The "tirade" was against those who have taken deep swigs of the Jobs koolaid.

Being a long-time Mac user is sometimes interesting, particularly because I fit so few of the moulds/stereotypes of Mac users. I started using Macs in 1988 because, after 40-60 hours per week as a UNIX system administrator back when reboots were a weekly necessity in a well-running UNIX system (thank B S D and later open source for fixing that little problem), when I got home, I wanted a tool that I didn't have to mess with to keep it working. I didn't want to fiddle with the insides - software or hardware - or do "insanely great" things: I just wanted a working system that I could use for writing letters or getting on B B Ss or what-have-you.

So while I have not toggled boot code in on the front console (I once employed someone who had, yowch), I have done about everything else. And if you think Gentoo is scary, you should have seen the first couple of distributions of Slackware. But it's still fun to tweak those who've drunk too deeply of any computer kool-aid - whether Jobs or Gates or Torvalds (really, ESR, I suppose) - especially when one is on firm enough ground technically to tweak them really hard.

But I still prefer Macs, especially since they started being built on a B S D infrastructure, for nearly everything I do.

(Note to Rand: your blog rejects B S D and B B S without the spaces as questionable content. Que?)

I have a PPC MacMini which consistently suffers disk I/O errors and corrupts its filesystem to the point where it has to be rebooted once an hour to be (semi-)useable. Wipe the partition, reinstall the OS and the same thing happens again. It's currently back at the shop, (hopefully) being fixed under warranty.

Apples can be lemons too ;-p

Dennis:
It might come as a surprise, but many of us who don't own Macs have heard of them a time or three.
Heck, some of us have even had jobs supporting them. Some of us even were directly affected by Jobs' "F*** them!" comment.
I've watched Mac's lag far behind in performance for years and years, and had the "Mac Witnesses" swear to me that it wasn't the case. (Now, perhaps, the gap will narrow, but I've got a serious suspicion that the Jobs Ego will soon wreck this, too). (The Mac Mini? "It's cheap!" "Uh, well, considering it's running at a performance level that's equal to the x86 machines we're now retiring, seems fair")
I know a whole lot about Macs, and I don't own one, nor is this likely to change soon. Don't worry, I've a local Mac user (physics PhD) who will keep me current, as he can't figure out how to do things and needs help... If you've never had a problem, hey, that's great. Mac's aren't _worthless_ and they do have some benefits. They're not for everybody, nor, are they a panacea.

As many wise persons on a.s.r. say repeatedly: All Hardware Sucks. All OSes Suck.

Speaking as someone who uses Mac OS X, _and_ Linux, _and_ Windows (albeit more reluctantly than the others), I'm bemused by the "it just works" reports regarding the Mac.

I'm using 10.3.9, because I don't want to go through the hoo-hah of reinstalling the OS, I've tried it with both "fink" and "darwinports," but a large number of applications that should be working, and "just work" on Linux (like, for instance, gnumeric) aren't working for me on MacOS X.

Perhaps I should say "Just Not Working?"

And even if it were working, the Mac OS unix app ports usually involve compilation on _your_ machine. The antithesis of "just working."