Transterrestrial Musings

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I'm schizo about writing in books. Novels, classic literature, art books: never. Music, technical stuff, textbooks: everywhere. If my tech stuff was in eBook form, I'd need user-defined hyperlinks and pop-ups to match all the information I have in my current dead tree margin notes.

Posted by Mike Anderson at February 23, 2006 12:29 PM

How weird am I?

I despise writing in books. It strikes me as being like scratching fingernails across chalkboard.

So, does that [help] or [hurt]?

Posted by Bill White at February 23, 2006 12:40 PM

I'll have to agree with Mike, and clarify myself, since I'm partialy responsible for this post.

I never write in my novels. I don't see the need to, because I read them for enjoyment. I also use bookmarks (actually, old business cards) to mark my place, not dog-ears.

But anything that I needed to read for a class in school, and that I had paid for (most textbooks pre-college were owned by the school) was pretty much fair game. One of the things I found to be the most interesting about buying a "used" textbook in college was being able to see what the previous readers found to be important enough to highlight, annotate, etc.

I'll admit that, in school, I never really paid much attention, never read much out of textbooks, and didn't really take many notes. But nowadays, any sort of manual, handout, or tech book I get my hands on will have notes in it, either with post-it paper or written directly on the page. It keeps me better connected to the material, as I mentioned in the comments before.

To wit, a lot of the "For Dummies" books, and other pseudo-tech books out there nowadays, have margin notes and underlining printed in a pseudo-handwriting font, to draw attention and give a little more "humanity" to the work.

Posted by John Breen III at February 23, 2006 12:47 PM

Chalk up another vote for old business cards over dog-ears. It just seems wrong to intentionally mar a book.

Somehow, though, I've come to see paperbacks as consumables. They don't seem to last more than a decade or so.

Posted by Andrew Ward at February 23, 2006 01:24 PM

Writing in books? Technical books I need to refer to... maybe. Anything else, never. Several people have commented to me when I let them borrow books that they looked like they had never been read. They seem surpised to know that I'd read them several times.

Posted by High Desert Wanderer at February 23, 2006 01:32 PM

Dog-ears, never. I try to always keep a few decent "real" bookmarks around, business cards are too short and end up getting shoved down into the book.

I rarely write in any book, but I can't say I never would do so. There would need to be a really good reason for me to do so. I hate getting a used book where someone has used highlighter, but a few notes in the margin I don't mind so much.

Posted by Cecil Trotter at February 23, 2006 01:36 PM

A true story about writing notes in books.

When I was in school, buying used books from the previous class year was common. One day a professor was telling a joke and a girl in class burst out laughing before he had gotten to the punchline. He walked over and demanded to know what was so funny. He hadn't delivered the punchline yet.

She couldn't talk due to her laughing but she pointed to the punchline which was written in the margin of her used textbook, opened to that day's assignment.

Non-plussed, the professor announced that next year he would find some new material.

Posted by Bill White at February 23, 2006 01:52 PM

No writing, no dog marks. I don't use business cards either (agree with Cecil, they tend to sink). I usually use receipts, sometimes the original purchase receipt to bookmark. Thinking about it, that's not a great idea, since the ink on the receipt is likely to stain.

As much as I don't do it, I've always thought it was a smart policy for those who wrote in textbooks. If the Prof is one that follows the text closely (like Bill's example), then why carrying around a text and a notepad (not to mention later cross-referencing). When I was in grade school, writing in the STATE OWNED BOOKS was akin to slapping the teacher. It's really a shame, as it limits some students studying.

Posted by Leland at February 23, 2006 02:09 PM

A book has about as much information as an endangered species' DNA. Don't meddle and definitely don't edit.

Posted by Sam Dinkin at February 23, 2006 02:33 PM

I sometimes buy logic puzzle magazines and will solve them on a separate piece of paper. I saw a collection of Sudoku books for sale that I'd never buy because the binding was too nice for me to want to defile.

Posted by Leland at February 23, 2006 02:48 PM

"Dog-ears, never. I try to always keep a few decent "real" bookmarks around, business cards are too short and end up getting shoved down into the book."

Try Magazine Subscription Cards.

Posted by Mike Puckett at February 23, 2006 02:53 PM

Well, except, Sam, that textbooks get revisions and new Editions published almost every year anymore. One error is enough to cause a publisher to start a new edition run.

If I'm not blacking out whole sections of words with a magic marker, how is that going to affect the future generations' ability to appreciate or interpret the text (especially if they are 20 revisions down the road)?

In my humble opinion, margin notes in text books (especially history books) can serve as future evidence that we were a society of thinkers, rather than a society where everyone had ideas drilled into their heads without question or reservation.

There are enough house copies of a text book that I shouldn't be expected to preserve mine as a historical backup. That's what the Library of Congress is ostensibly for, no?

Handbound, handwritten manuscripts are one thing, but I'm talking about million-plus copies of school text books here...

Also, Rand, the link at the head of this post is blank.

Posted by John Breen III at February 23, 2006 02:58 PM

Try Magazine Subscription Cards

I assume you mean the blow-ins that fall out when you open the magazine. Yup, been there, done that.

If I dog ear a book, it's not to save a reading place, but to save a place that has a particularly interesting passage when I'm doing research. That is the energy barrier that I have to hurdle myself over to do it. Simply marking where I've gotten in the book doesn't justify it.

Posted by Rand Simberg at February 23, 2006 03:06 PM

...a lot of the "For Dummies" books, and other pseudo-tech books out there nowadays, have margin notes and underlining printed in a pseudo-handwriting font, to draw attention and give a little more "humanity" to the work.

That's OK, because the people who wrote and published the book did it, so that preserves the sacrament. It's the yahoos who have no appreciation for literature, who scribble in the margins and write graffiti that I object to. ;-)

Posted by Rand Simberg at February 23, 2006 03:12 PM

Only if I'm actually marking the book up for corrections. In which case it's usually a galley copy or similar proof.

I never found that highlighting passages helped me in any way. Far better to copy over by hand into my notes.

Posted by Jon Acheson at February 23, 2006 03:12 PM

I never dog-ear books. That's only for the strategically placed motorcycle accessory catalogs left lying around before Christmas, Father's Day, and birthday.

As for writing in books, I occasionally annotate passages, so that I can easily find them for use in lectures and so forth. One of my favorite books is Peter Hughes' Spacecraft Attitude Dynamics. I have at least half a dozen clothbound copies, scattered in my office, my lab, and my home. One of the office copies is my annotated copy. The rest are pristine.

In non-technical books, I also annotate, always lightly and in pencil.

I had a classmate in grad school who highlighted every sentence and equation on every page of every book. I never could figure out how that could possibly help him, but they were his books.

Posted by chris hall at February 23, 2006 03:35 PM

Dog ears yes, never any writing, or highlighting, even in school/research books. Writing in books is akin to tatooing. No tatoos for me. js

Posted by Jared at February 23, 2006 04:12 PM

I never write in a fiction book. Bookmarks only, no dog ears. Even in cookbooks, I mark with Post-It arrows; I have annotated one reproduction of a medieval cookbook for modern clarification. Once I burned a book because it was so awful that it was the only response I could think of to express my extreme displeasure with the author and his stupid attitudes, but that was only one book. Sometimes I write in a text book for my information.
My inability to harm a book I think is, as you said, visceral. Perhaps those who don't deface books understand how precious the printed word is, even when mass produced?

Posted by Aleta at February 23, 2006 04:31 PM

I would like to see a written novel that includes extensive margin notes by someone who too closely identifies with one of the characters. The "reader's" self exploration through the story being actually more important than the story.

Actually it would be cool to see that done with an existing novel. It would have to be something older to avoid copyright problems. Crime and Punishment would be a good one.

Posted by Stephen Macklin at February 23, 2006 04:35 PM

It never occurred to me to think about this at all. I write in textbooks but never rereference it. I can't see why anyone would write in a novel. Bookmarks? Whatever random scrap of paper I have laying around usually suffices.

Posted by Andy at February 23, 2006 04:36 PM

Oh man, does this topic bring up bad and good memories.

I was taught by a lovely lady who taught us on promise of death to never high light, dog ear or write in the margins because it was close to sacrilege.

The very next year, I had a teacher who was a proponent of under lining and margin writing if both were done in pencil.

Both of these ladies were members of the Sister of Mt. Carmel. I have wondered if they are dueling nuns in the here after. Perpetually locked in battle over third and fourth graders writing in books.

Right after I got back from treatment for my schizophrenia I vowed never to write in a book again.

I never write in a book, if the author wanted margin notes he would have put them there. If items need high lighting, they will be italicized.

Posted by Steve at February 23, 2006 04:37 PM

My approach has changed over the years. I never highlighted (lit?) in college, and can't stand to look at a book that someone else has taken the bright yellow to.

Fiction books I never marked, though now with my wife and I reading the same books, we'll mark some of our favorite spots for each other.

For books I see my self referring to in the future, I now take to putting post-it flags next to the interesting spot on a page, then label the flag and record what I found interesting.

I see books as tools, not sacrament.

Posted by Tom at February 23, 2006 05:53 PM

The margin notes my grandfather wrote in his Bible are insights into his thoughts, and pretty much all I have left of him.

Would Fermat's last theorem have created the stir it did without the "Remarkable Proof!" margin note?

Myself, I will annotate any textbook I own; my copy of The Society of Mind has more of my words than Minsky's words.

Posted by Ed Minchau at February 23, 2006 06:18 PM

How many people write Fermat's last theorem in margin notes? Had he written it in a notebook, would it have been lost to history?

Posted by Rand Simberg at February 23, 2006 06:25 PM

I remember being in awe of books as a child, and even though they're now mass produced,

So they weren't massed produced when you were a child? How old are you Rand? :)

I don't write in books at all, but it isn't on purpose, I just don't find it helpful. I keep a notebook for each textbook and I make notes on my laptop for work related stuff.

BTW: what is with the b__p__a complaint in my url (since I can't use blo*spot)

Posted by Dan Schrimpsher at February 23, 2006 09:30 PM

Phobic about writing in books, probably due to coming up through public school in which it was verboten.

Posted by Paul Druce at February 23, 2006 09:52 PM

Novels and such I don't write anything in. What's the point? They're consumables, as another poster noted.

My old college textbooks have some hightlighting and scribbles in, but I don't remember if they helped me at all.

These days, if I write in a book, it's kinda for selfish reasons. I've fallen into collecting books from the '20s through the '50s covering electronics, particularly amateur (or "ham") radio. More often that not, some other ham wrote his name on the inside of the front cover-- something like, "John Q. Smith, W3XYZ, Oct. 1942". Some of these books aren't exactly deathless prose-- they were books aimed at practical men, and the technology covered in them is largely obsolete. (Not many Franklin Master Oscillators are built these days, let alone with vacuum tubes.) Someday, the books will not be mine, and I'm hoping that some future owner will cherish them as much as I do, and wonder about "John Q. Smith, W3XYZ, Oct. 1942" and "Hale Adams, N3NYC, Feb. 2006".

Yeah, it's selfish, I know. :)

As for throwing a book out, or destroying one, I've only thrown out one book that I can remember, and it was a real stinker of a science fiction novel-- something by Julian May, I think. I've only been tempted to destroy one book, and that was "Entropy" by Jeremy Rifkin. I pulled it off the shelf at the bookstore, thinking it was a treatise on entropy (which I have a hard time understanding), and found it was an innumerate, ill informed, and generally dishonest attempt to apply the Second Law to non-thermodynamic phenomena. (I grant that the Second Law has implications outside the realm of thermodynamics, but......) It was all I could do to suppress an urge to throw the book HARD at the nearest wall in disgust, and to instead place it gently back on the shelf.

Posted by Hale Adams at February 23, 2006 09:58 PM

Underline or notate: very rarely. Occasionally I'll dog-ear one or two really significant pages. One exception: I dog-eared many pages in my first (paperback) copy of "A Voyage to Arcturus" because in my earliest readings it made a huge impression on me and I was trying to understand all the allusions.

Posted by Jim C. at February 23, 2006 10:23 PM

I meant cheaply mass produced. Printing costs have come down.

Posted by Rand Simberg at February 24, 2006 04:32 AM

Write in or Dog ear books? NO. I cringe when I see someone lick their finger to turn pages. That person never gets to borrow a book of mine.

My son never users bookmarks because he always remembers the page he last read - even if months later.

Posted by Frank at February 24, 2006 06:04 AM

Only in technical books do I highlight or underline. Much of my early reading was school library or public library books and I held those as close to sacred, and even in this age of cruddy paper and cheap inks 'tis just plain wrong to mar a book. A memory flash from grade school: all the library books had a bookplate that said "Please wash your hands before you read me, and keep me clean." For bookmarks, whatever is convenient - cards, receipts, old movie or lottery tickets - I NEVER dogear. To me there's something metaphysical going on in a book of fiction. The book may or may not live up to its promise, but I feel better if I "do my duty" by it.

Posted by Stewart at February 24, 2006 05:14 PM

"I remember being in awe of books as a child" this sent chills up my spine. I thought I was alone in this feeling. I physically shook when a friend gave me back a book with dogears that I'd lent him. Since then I've realized that some books are meant to be consumed (highlights mostly w/ some notes) but this is still rare for me.

Posted by ken anthony at February 24, 2006 09:22 PM

The best reason for not defacing a book is that you intend to sell it. However, the sad fact is that most books aren't really worth reselling (and many weren't really worth buying in the first place).

Having to deal with the two estates in the past few years, I realize just how low the value of old books typically is. In many cases they just take up space.

Sic transit gloria mundi.

Posted by Paul Dietz at February 25, 2006 09:14 AM

Books are tools. I use them accordingly. I think nothing of annotating my books, and I also build my own custom indexes in the end-papers. My three first edition volumes of "The Gulag Archipelago" are fully annotated and indexed. Very often, I cross-index them across my library. ("Ah! Rand in her 'Letters' makes a point about Einstein & Newton that Mises touches upon in 'Human Action'. Right! Note that in both books!") They're mine, and they serve me, my way. Anyone who gets them after I'm gone can moan & whine if they want to, but I don't care.

I have never understood people who have this amazing visceral response to this. It's a remarkable thing to come upon when it happens: suddenly seeing something in someone else that I never saw before. I can never figure it out.

Posted by Billy Beck at February 25, 2006 11:38 AM

Ps. -- no dogears. My life is full of paper bits that serve well as bookmarks: interesting airline boarding passes, photographs, an un-used event ticket from the 1980 Winter Olympics, curious hotel room-key cards, post cards, you name it. I don't hesitate to write in my books, but I never bend pages.

Weird? (shrug)

Posted by Billy Beck at February 25, 2006 11:41 AM

"The margin notes my grandfather wrote in his Bible are insights into his thoughts, and pretty much all I have left of him."

(nod) Yes, yes, Ed. Some of my closest treasures are books with my father's notes in them in his lifelong red ink. He read my copy of Chris Sciabarra's "Ayn Rand -- The Russian Radical" after I'd already noted it. So, the thing now looks like a three way conversation between him, Sciabarra, and me. I have several books like this, and they're extremely important to me. Like, house burning down important: "Okay... save that guitar, and those books..."

Posted by Billy Beck at February 25, 2006 11:50 AM

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