Transterrestrial Musings

Comments

Hell, I am only 38 but I know who Joni Mitchell was.

"I dreamed I saw the butterfly turn into bomber jet planes and bomb the hippies into pie!"

Posted by Mike Puckett at August 17, 2004 06:10 PM

"Was"?

She's still with us, as far as I know.

Posted by Rand Simberg at August 17, 2004 06:19 PM

'was' as in 'has been'

Posted by Mike Puckett at August 17, 2004 07:30 PM

Perhaps, in the sense of not making music any more. Nonetheless, I think that she's one of the most talented musicians of her generation.

Posted by Rand Simberg at August 17, 2004 07:35 PM

'Sic transit gloria'

Posted by Mike Puckett at August 17, 2004 07:42 PM

"Sic transit gloria mundi"

Left a word off, sorry.

Posted by Mike Puckett at August 17, 2004 07:43 PM

Heck, I wasn't born yet and I understand the reference.

Neil should have never left the band.

Posted by John at August 17, 2004 08:43 PM

"Neil"?

Posted by Rand Simberg at August 17, 2004 08:48 PM

"You can leave if you want to; we're just jammin', that's all..."

Posted by The Sanity Inspector at August 17, 2004 08:53 PM

"You can check out, but you can never leave..."

Posted by Derek L. at August 17, 2004 09:05 PM

...I was 14 and visiting my Aunt and cousins who lived in NYC. My cousin and I plotted all week how to run off and go to the festival, some of her friends from school were going. We never did go, they got within 40 miles of Yasgars Farm. Not NEARLY close enough to hear much.

Posted by Steve at August 17, 2004 09:12 PM

We never did go, they got within 40 miles of Yasgars Farm. Not NEARLY close enough to hear much.

Back in the Seventies, there was a bit in MAD magazine about Woodstock, the kicker of which was that the protagonist never got within earshot of the concert, due to the traffic jam.

Posted by The Sanity Inspector at August 17, 2004 09:15 PM

I was skippering a swift boat near Cambodia while coming up with the idea for the Internet.

Posted by Alan K. Henderson at August 17, 2004 11:03 PM

Joni Mitchell has a new album, Dreamland, coming out next month, she still tours too. Rand, Neil Young if you weren't joking. She wrote the song Woodstock that CSN&Y made famous.

Posted by Bill Maron at August 17, 2004 11:38 PM

I wasn't joking. I thought that CSNY screwed up a good song. I only associate it with her.

For what it's worth, I think that Neil Young is one of the most overrated talents of that era. Can't sing, can't play guitar, can't play the harp. Like Dylan, he was a triple threat.

Posted by Rand Simberg at August 18, 2004 08:31 AM

"You can check out, but you can never leave..."

"You can check out any time you like but you can never leave"

Hotel California 1976 The Eagles

Posted by Mike Puckett at August 18, 2004 11:27 AM

For what it's worth, I think that Neil Young is one of the most overrated talents of that era. Can't sing, can't play guitar...

But look what happened when another guitarist copied his gear setup!

http://www.thewho.net/whotabs/gretsch.htm

Posted by The Sanity Inspector at August 18, 2004 11:54 AM

We are stardust, we are golden,
We are billion-year-old carbon

And we've got to get ourselves
Back to The Garden...

Kewl... melodious, but I'm STILL in favor
of shooting dead the terrorists who
seek America's end!

Posted by Eye Opener at August 18, 2004 09:46 PM

I was stuck in California -- finishing up a very weird two years in the U.S. Army. It wasn't easy being a young man with a physics degree and a sharp mind involved in a really screwed up organization.

California changed me.

Still love the music. Touches me to this day.

I loved Dylan's songs -- just not his singing. I have a CD of Peter, Paul and Mary's "A Holiday Celebration." It finishes with "Blowing in the Wind." By the time the CD finishes, my liberal, conservative, libertarian, freedom loving, pacifist and promilitary sides are all in harmony. YMMV.

Posted by Chuck Divine at August 19, 2004 06:49 PM

As I'm an aussie and was 14 yrs at the time, I never had much hope of getting to the Woodstock festival, though my fellow Aussie the late Lillian Roxon (who wrote the first 'Rock Encyclopedia') may have been there.

I went to the movie though, in 1970. Just as I was going into the theatre I saw a headline 'Rock star found dead'. When I came out after the movie I saw the Rock Star was Jimi Hendrix. This news after seeing that extraordinary performance at the climax of the film meant I will never forget that day, whatever I might have come to think of the hippie thing in general.

Posted by aussie at August 20, 2004 03:21 AM

>>I wasn't joking. I thought that CSNY screwed up
>>a good song. I only associate it with her.
>>For what it's worth, I think that Neil Young is
>>one of the most overrated talents of that era.

http://www.vh1.com/artists/az/young_neil/bio.jhtml

"After Neil Young left the Californian folk-rock band Buffalo Springfield in 1968, he slowly established himself as one of the most influential and idiosyncratic singer/songwriters of his generation"

What do you mean by overrated?

BTW, here's a question for you, who seem to be such a powerhouse of (popular) music knowledge: Who sang backstage back-up on Neil Young's song "Helpless" on the "The Last Waltz"?

>>Can't sing

Those who say Neil Young can't sing, usually belong to either the crowd who only listen to trained voices, or the crowd who've not actually listened much to his music (whatever they may be saying)

>>can't play guitar

What's your "standard" regarding guitar-playing?

>>can't play the harp.

Now, I'm sure you play the harp much better than Neil. It would be interesting to know in what way Neil Young is not up to your standard?

>>Like Dylan, he was a triple threat.

Have you actually listened much to Dylan?

You say he's a threat. Are you thinking about this song:

You fasten the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

or, you're not thinking about this one are you:

Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free,
Silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands,
With all memory and fate driven deep beneath the waves,
Let me forget about today until tomorrow.

(Yea, why didn't you write that.)

BTW, here's once again a question for you, who seem to be such a powerhouse of (popular) music knowledge. Which two Dylan songs did I quote from?

Posted by Canute at August 20, 2004 10:12 AM

It's not necessary to be a better singer, guitar player, or harp player than someone for me to have an opinion on their abilities.

And I never said that Dylan wasn't a good songwriter, so your "rebuttal" is a non-sequitur.

Thanks for playing, though.

Posted by Rand Simberg at August 20, 2004 11:17 AM

>>It's not necessary to be a better singer,
>>guitar player, or harp player than someone for
>>me to have an opinion on their abilities.

Why don't you READ what I actually WRITE before you REPLY.

First, regarding Neil's singing abilities. In my reply I only talked about in which crowd you seem to belong, not whether you're a "better" singer than Neil.

Second, regarding Neil's guitar-playing abilities. You wrote that he can't play guitar.
I could have written a LONG essay arguing why Neil Young in fact can play the guitar. Instead I asked for your "standard" regarding guitar-playing. You see, I'm using quotation marks to indicate not your personal standard (skills) regarding guitar-playing, but the "standard" you seem to require of other people; in this case Neil Young. So why don't you answer my question. What is your "standard" regarding guitar-playing, or -- to phrase it in another way -- how well must one play to be considered worthy by you?

Third, only regarding harp-playing was I being ironic. Do you have problems understanding basic irony?

This means that two thirds of your "rebuttal" is invalid, and please take note; I'm taking into account that my reply regarding harp-playing can be interpreted the way you did.

Also, you didn't answer my question on who sang backstage back-up on Neil Young's song "Helpless" on "The Last Waltz"? Is it because you don't know the answer? (Note that the answer in fact is relevant to this thread)

>>And I never said that Dylan wasn't a good
>>songwriter, so your "rebuttal" is a non-sequitur.

No, you said he was a "triple threat" (Why don't you elaborate?) It's approptiate to use the quote from the first Dylan song (which one is it Rand?) here on this pro-war blog. I can understand that you would find this song "threatening"

You didn't recognize the lyrics from the second Dylan song, did you? Here's a hint for you: The man Joni Mitchell lived with in California in the late '60s had earlier played in a band that had reached notiriaty playing this song with Beatles-style melodies and professionalism. Furthermore, this man is on record saying that initially he didn't like Dylan's voice, but that he later saw beyond that, to recognize the greatness in writing such lyrics as "Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free, Silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands...." The man Joni Mitchell lived with in the late '60s also said regarding this song: "Ahh, why didn't I write that"

So you see Rand, the "why didn't you write that" line -- however elusive -- was IRONIC and was meant to be recognized by a powerhouse of (popular) music knowledge, such as yourself

You don't play very well Rand.

Posted by Canute at August 20, 2004 01:30 PM

Do you have a life?

I expressed my opinion about Neil Young's singing, guitar playing, and harmonica playing. I think they're all lousy. This is a subjective opinion, one developed at an early age, and one that has remained unchanged through the years. I don't know why you think spewing a bunch of words, and history, and glowing reviews from others, and various rock esoterica is going to somehow change my mind.

I also don't know why it's so important to you that my mind be changed. I'm a space policy analyst, not a music reviewer. Why are you so threatened by my opinion?

And as for "threats," when I said that Dylan was a "triple threat," I meant that, like Neil Young, he is a mediocre singer, mediocre guitarist, and mediocre harp player. The term "triple threat" means (in sports) that someone has multiple abilities. I was using it in an ironic sense here. The notion that my use of the term means that I'm literally threatened by Bob Dylan is the dumbest thing that I've seen this week. Or would be if I didn't frequent Usenet.

Posted by Rand Simberg at August 20, 2004 02:25 PM

>>I expressed my opinion about Neil Young's
>>singing, guitar playing, and harmonica playing.

False. You said that Neil Young is one of the most overrated talents of that era. Such a statement would not only include singing, guitar playing, and harmonica playing, but also of course his SONGWRITING abilities. Instead of writing a rebuttal, I provided for a link to ONE review, Rand. It's silly trying to inflate the numbers, just to make a point.

>>I don't know why you think spewing a bunch of
>>words, and history,

Not a bunch of words and history Rand, but one specific point of interest regarding Joni Mitchell and Neil Young. As you don't seem to be very well informed, why don't you google to find out more.

Regarding the various "rock esoterica":

1. Joni Mitchell sang backstage back-up on Neil Young's song "Helpless" on the The Band's famous last concert, "The Last Waltz".

2. The second Dylan song I was quoting from was of course Mr. Tambourine Man.

>>...is going to somehow change my mind

That's a pretty stupid comment Rand. Of Course I'm not trying to change your mind. Why should I do that? What I've done, is merely to point out that you don't know what you're talking about.

>>I also don't know why it's so important to you
>>that my mind be changed.........Why are you so
>>threatened by my opinion?

Do you really believe that. Again, I entered this thread to make a few points regarding your views regarding Neil Young.

>>And as for "threats," when I said that Dylan
>>was a "triple threat," I meant that, like Neil
>>Young, he is a mediocre singer, mediocre
>>guitarist, and mediocre harp player.

No, you said he can't do any of the three things

>>term "triple threat" means (in sports) that
>>someone has multiple abilities.

OK, as a non-native english speaker I was not familiar with the term. However, as you shoud have seen, I used the word "threatening" --with quotation marks -- in an ironic sense. You saying that "I'm literally threatened by Bob Dylan" demonstrates once again your carelessness in formulating replies.

Posted by Canute at August 21, 2004 06:09 AM

Well, Canute, I weigh in with Rand.

"There's battle lines being drawn,
NOBODY'S right, if everybody's wrong..."

You like Neil, I find his whiny, nasal drone
irritating and non-musical. I was, however,
MOVED and INSPIRED by Buffalo Springfield's
music, quoted above. Let me be right, too...

And late nights at the remnants of Fishermans'
Wharf, Monterey, saw me listening to Dylan's
"Tambourine Man", totally blown away by who
he was in the scheme of square-adultium vs
hip-youthium-ME/US...

But that didn't make his simplistic guitar
playing any better. Didn't make his simple
harp-honking melodious or rippling or noteworthy.

I dug Leo Kottke and Eric Clapton and other
REAL guitar players. 'Cause its all right Ma,
I'm only cryin'

Posted by Sharps Shooter at August 21, 2004 10:01 AM

Post a comment