A gruesome tale, from the Religion of Peace™.

It's a little unfair to lay this at the feet of Islam. This is tribal idiocy, not religious idiocy (though the practitioners of the idiocy may be unable to make the distinction). Christians used to do hideous things to other people, including burning them alive. The Torah mandates some pretty vicious punishments for minor crimes. In both cases they've worked out fairly well once they stripped away the nasty parts.

Andrew, I'll stop blaming it on Islam when I see significant numbers of Muslims speaking out against it.

This is a religion badly in need of a reformation. I'd like to see a plan from some of them about how they're going to strip away the nasty parts, but instead, we get whining victimhood from CAIR.

Rand I have some sympathy with your point, but changing the nature of all Islam is a "bridge too far" right now. We haven't got the power to accomplish what you seek.

Remember the Krauthammer article you posted?

David Brooks scores big today in the NY Times as well. And neither of these gentleman are lefties, right?

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/11/opinion/11BROO.html?hp=&pagewanted=print&position=

I'm not proposing to do it right now. I'm just point out that ultimately, this war won't end until it's done, one way or another.

“Men often oppose a thing merely because they have no agency in planning it,” Alexander Hamilton says, “or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.”

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Like Krauthammer wrote, ending oppressive patriarchy is a good thing. A very good thing.

Yet all Islam will oppose us if we insist on taking credit for it. Didn't Ronald Reagan say that anything was possible if you let the other guy take the credit?

I do not oppose the goals President Bush espouses for the Middle East. Rather I believe his desire to be praised for pursuing those goals undermines their achievement.

If we expect the Iraqis to be grateful,we will fail to achieve anything, as David Brooks writes, today.

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That blue & white Iraqi flag is another bridge too far. I have this sneaking suspicion that one of Chalabi's family members designed that flag (as an Iranian double agent) to make darn sure the average Iraqi hesitates giving the new regime his support.

...all Islam will oppose us if we insist on taking credit for it.

Who is insisting on that?

I believe his desire to be praised for pursuing those goals undermines their achievement.

What's your evidence for such a desire? I've not noticed it.

That blue & white Iraqi flag is another bridge too far. I have this sneaking suspicion that one of Chalabi's family members designed that flag (as an Iranian double agent) to make darn sure the average Iraqi hesitates giving the new regime his support.

Do you realize how little sense that statement makes?

I DO NOT endorse the fanatical words found at the following link. Don't flame me for that. ;-)

That said, the images of the various Islamic country flags (reds and blacks and greens) are all nicely displayed in one place.

http://www.ericblumrich.com/flag.html

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Imagine teling the NY Yankees that they must wear red pinstripes next year?

How the heck do we expect native Iraqis to fight and die for that new flag? How can your Iraqi man in the street come to love this new flag in a matter of weeks or months?

We're really straying off topic now, but do you have some evidence, other than the fact that it's not the same colors as other Arab flags, that a significant number of Iraqis are actually unhappy about it? Many Iraqis aren't all that enamored with their so-called Arab brethren right now, given the support for Saddam by much of the region, and its indifference to their suffering.

Added for flame-prevention ;-)

from the link:

= = > "BTW- I might as well head off any mini-brained accusations of "anti semitism" for making such a comparison, right here- I han't even thought of this resemblance, until Jon Stewart- himself jewish- pointed it out last night, on the "Daily Show".

I (Bill White) love Jon Stewart, by the way.

What is our mission in Iraq? Are we at war with all Islam?

That flag suggests "Yes" and therefore we view occupied Iraq as a bridghead to start a new Crusade against all Islam. (Or those Muslims who refuse to accept our "leadership")

Proof? No. But symbolism is very important.

Your original post (A gruesome tale, from the Religion of Peace) sends the same message. "Islam" is the real enemy.

I cannot refute your observations out of hand. I agree more than it may seem.

But defeating Islam (look at birth rates and remember that demography is destiny) is one huge task that cannot be accomplished with 21st century weaponry. Rumsfeld's strategery is just won't work.

Read David Brooks - he says it better than me. And he ain't no leftie.

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You want an Iranian revolution? Okay, I want an Iranian revolution also. Best way to get there?

Leave 'em alone. If we do it for them, they will resent us.

But defeating Islam (look at birth rates and remember that demography is destiny) is one huge task that cannot be accomplished with 21st century weaponry. Rumsfeld's strategery is just won't work.

No one sensible claimed it would (including Rumsfeld). I've seen an amazing number of strawmen in this posting section, all coming from one person.

Why did you post your original post, Rand, except to say Islam is evil?

I did it to point out that a particularly virulent brand of Islam is evil, and other members of the Religion of Peace™ remain in denial about it. If they don't fix it, we will. We must hope that it doesn't come to that.

A be-heading was just announced. al Qaeda is evil, no argument here.

My point is that the blue/white flag business and the prison abuses (and countless other examples) gives al Qaeda PR ammunition amongst those very same people Rand and I both hope will turn against the Islamic extremists.

In the PsyOps war, we are getting our butts kicked.

While the prison abuse was stupid, and a setback, I'm not sure that it will have that much effect in Iraq itself, and it's hard to make general Arab opinion of us much lower than it already is. When we demonstrate that we punish people for such things, instead of rewarding them, this will blow over, and I'm still waiting to see some empirical evidence (as opposed to your strange theory) that Iraqis are upset about the flag.

We could be doing better, but that's always the case. We could also be doing much, much worse.

Flag link:

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2853643

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Thank God! This link suggests the IGC views the blue/white flag as merely temporary. ;-)

Regarding Rand's original post; until mainstream Muslims and their Imams speak out in a coherent way about this behavior, it will continue. Generally speaking, all religions have treated women poorly, some much worse than others.