Transterrestrial Musings

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No, they won't. No one uses half dollars, and no one used those Eisenhower manhole covers in the '70s. They'll use dollar bills as long as dollar bills exist.

Personally, I like half dollars, but I seem to be the only one.

Posted by Mike at May 29, 2002 01:56 PM

By the way, the link goes to the SFSU story.

Posted by Mike at May 29, 2002 01:58 PM

They don't need to make it bigger per se, they just need to make it more recognizable to the touch (the fumble-in-your-pocket test).

There are ready examples: I would have made it more like the French 10-franc coin or the UK pound coin -- just a bit smaller than a quarter but noticeably thicker. It helps that both of these were somewhere between $1 and $2 in value, making the size analogy work even better.

Of course, they could just stop printing dollar bills and the problem would take care of itself.

Posted by Craig at May 29, 2002 02:26 PM

Thanks--I've fixed the link.

Posted by Rand Simberg at May 29, 2002 02:48 PM

Now that vending machines accept dollar bills, and Americans just aren't used to dollar coins, I don't think they will ever catch on. Besides, the dollar coins don't seem to be made for use per se, but practically to celebrate women's rights. First Susan B. Anthony (ok by me), then Sacagawea (huh?). Who's next, Susan Sontag?

Posted by Russ Lemley at May 29, 2002 05:07 PM

There are a number of problems with the dollar coin. One is that Americans have this belief that coins are suitable for fractional amounts. Probably in part due to the switch from silver to those sandwich slugs in the the 1960s. Those old silver dollars felt like real money; these new ones feel like something you get in a box of cereal.

Another problem is that they are not being introduced because of any sort of market demand,but because some bureaucrat has decided that single dollar bills are "a bad thing" and must be removed from circulation. So the unpopularity is in part due to the innate American orneriness when it comes to arbitrary government actions. What's worse is that we've now had three different dollar coins, and there's no way a fourth will have a better result. (Isn't repeating an identical action with the expectation of different results a sign of insanity?)

As W.C.Fields said, "If at first you don't succeed, try again. Then give up, there's no use being a damn fool about it."

Posted by at May 29, 2002 05:47 PM

They don't want to make it bigger cause they want the coin to have roughly the same size and magnetic properties of a quarter in order for it to work in most every vending machine currently on the market. If they make the coin to big, it won't fit in vending machines and therefore definently wouldn't be used by people. Cause who's to expect the vending machine manufacturer to retool the coin slots at there own expense. Plus cost is a concern. There is a balancing act between the acceptable cost of manufacturing the coin and it represented worth. If we make a large coin than that would consume to much metal resource and therefore cost to much to produce. So there were quite a number of restraint placed on the design of the coin from the very beginning. I like the new coin when I get them so often at the postal office when I buy a book of stamps from the stamp vending machine. I throw them in my bucket of coins and keep them there. It isn't to hard to identify the new dollar coins in a huge bucket cause the distinct color makes them pop right out. But I guess some people really aren't used to them. I ordered a delivery pizza one time and gave the delivery person 15 dollar coins for pizza and tip. He just sat there staring at me like, "Where's the money for the pizza". Obviously he toke the roll of coins I handed him as a stack of quarters. I had to explain that they are dollar coins and that they are completely legit. He just wandered back to his car inspecting each one curiously.

Posted by Hefty at May 30, 2002 06:42 AM

Here's my two cents... Hey? where is that cent symbol key anyway? ;-) I agree that they should give up on the dollar coin (go to Las Vegas if you really need one, right?) I say they make a $2 or even $2.50 dollar coin in the following way... a slightly rounded rectangle with the thickness and metal of a dime, the minor length of a nickel and the major length of a quarter. Certainly be sure to include some obscure historical references that make people scratch their heads. I think it would be a winner.

PS: no I don't work for the treasury department (you can breath now.)

Posted by ken anthony at May 30, 2002 07:30 AM

Well, I like the dollar coin. However, I don't carry many of them myself. Why? Because it is so hard to find them -- my bank will only grudgingly hand them out -- no more than five at a time.

The reason for the dollar coin is that it lasts longer than a dollar bill (which, I believe, averages about six months in circulation) and therefore is cheaper to produce (yes, making money costs money...).

But if the US Mint is serious they are going to have to persuade someone, anyone, major to start handing these things out instead of dollar bills. If my bank automatically gave me coins instead of bills, for instance, or if Wal-Mart was giving change in coins instead of bills we could get these things into circulation.

But I don't see it happening...

Posted by oreta at May 30, 2002 10:13 AM

The dollar coins) didn't catch on, because the majority of the American people don't like or want coins in denominations larger than 25 cents, for whatever reason. If they did, the old $1 coins would still be around, and you would see more 50 cent pieces than you do. And I am sick of the argument about how the coins last longer and so save money. Well, we have minted I don't know how many millions of Susan B. Anthony and Sacagawea dollars that no one uses, and cost the Treasury department I don't know how much to store. Gee, that saved a lot of money, didn't it? BTW, about Canada: I was visiting relatives near Edmonton, Alberta about the time the "looney" was introduced, and everyone I talked to hated them. They especially hated the fact that the paper $1 bills were being removed so as to force the use of the coins. Check out people would apologize to me when they gave them to me in change. One expressed envy that "you Yanks won't let your government do this to you." I hope he turns out to be right.

Posted by Ray Gratrix at May 30, 2002 11:07 AM

Hefty, you're wrong on one point. The new Sacajawea dollar coin was required by legislation to have the same weight, metallic composition, and magnetic properties as the Susan B. Anthony dollar, and they hoped that making them gold-colored and changing the ridging on the edge would make them recognizable by feel -- but that was less important than that vending machines wouldn't have to be recalibrated. (If they made it the same as a quarter, you'd lose 75% on every transaction ....)

Clearly it won't replace the dollar bill ... unless they eliminate the bills. But I'm not so sure the exercise hasn't been worth it for the Treasury.

Posted by lakefxdan at May 30, 2002 08:21 PM

Sure, the dollar coin is nice, but the way it was a hundred years ago was far better! I like the idea of REAL bullion in my pocket. With silver prices so low now, they ought to start minting it for circulation again. They could even recallibrate our system 10x. The New Dollar could be worth 10 Old Dollars, and that would make it easier to create a real silver dollar with almost a ounce (since silver is running about $4.50 now).

Posted by moxieman at June 12, 2003 05:42 PM

1) They had to make it the same weight and magnetic properties as the Suzie B. They wanted it to work in vending machines that Took Suzie B's without modifications.

2) They wanted it to feel different from the quarter. So the smooth ridge and the golden color.

3) The treasury estimates that it would save over 1/2 billion dollars a year by getting rid of dollar bills. It's just wasting money to insist on keeping them.

4) People had no trouble with quarters in the 60's. That's what a dollar is worth today, what a quarter was worth in the 60's. It should be no more trouble today than it was then with more valuable quarters.

5) I think that most of the resistance is from merchants. I notice that most checkout people get to know the layout of the register. They know how to make change very quickly with the common denominations. When they get an unusual denomination, they don't seem to know where to put it. It usually goes underneath the cash tray and gets ignored, I guess until closeout or until the money is packed up to go to the bank.

When it goes to the bank, I bet all of the 50 cent pieces, Suzie B.'s (the ones that weren't mistaken for quarters) and Sacagawea dollars as well as the larger denominations are sure to go and not stay in the register to make change. I think that it's a training issue. People learn how to make change with the common denominations. Throw something that doesn't fit into it and mistakes can be made.

6) There is no compelling reason for a merchant to change. There is risk to changing.

7) If we stopped printing dollar bills, they would adjust and get used to a new system.

8) The dollar coins are great for paying tolls. They are much easier to count out and throw into those baskets. It's worth an occasional trip to the bank for that convenience.

9) If the bank wasn't so reluctant to give them up that is. What's the deal? They have no problem when I ask for quarters for laundry, but they have problems when I ask for dollar coins for the bridge tolls.

I don't buy the banks saying that people don't want them. My experience is that they don't keep many around.

10) Speaking of laundry. I would really love to stop walking around with a pocket full of quarters on laundry day. I really wish that we could get the laundry machines to take the dollar coins. That would make my pocket about 1/4 as heavy on laundry day.

11) The vending industry is one of the biggest groups pushing for the elimination of the dollar. They have also been one of the biggest supporters of the Sacagawea dollar. This is because, as nearly as I can tell, that it much less expensive to maintain machines without bill changers. Also, I've never seen a machine that gives bills for change. I assume that's because they're too expensive. But I've used a machine that gives out dollar coins. Again, much better than a pocket full of quarters.

12) I think that more change machines would contribute to the popularity of the dollar coin. They have one in the building that I work in and they have a cafeteria in the same room. They get the coins there often and sometimes give them in change. I think more of these change machines around vending machines and other places to spend money will increase circulation.

13) Much of the reason for minting these coins, I think, is because the post office needs them for giving change from stamp machines. I think they originally started giving the change in dollar coins to help distribute the Suzie B.s. But now they are stuck with the machines and they need dollar coins. The mint had to mint another run of Suzie B.s in the late 90's because they ran out and the Post Office needed them. Or at least that was my understanding. They ran out faster this time and nobody wanted more Suzie B.s. So we got the Sacagawea dollar coins. Also, there are change making machines of large denominations that use them. Subway/Metro systems also use them. So they are being used in areas that need them.

14) The coins are great once you get used to them. You tend to spend your coins first. With bills, I find that I usually just pull out a large denomination bill and just let the person behind the counter make change.

When I'm in a country, like Germany (before the Euro -- I imagine it hasn't changed much though), that had 5 DM coins, I found that I didn't even go into my wallet often. I usually spent the coins first and then brought out a bill only when I ran low on coins. So I usually had only one or two of each denomination of coin. I often have a whole stack of ones clogging my wallet here.

15) I am sick of straitening $1 bills and coaxing them into bill changers. The dollar coins are great for vending machines. Just drop them in the slot and your soda comes out. No zzzt, zooot, zzzit, zzzoot, straighten, straighten, zzzz-zooo, zzzz-zoooo, unfold another corner, rub back and forth along the machine, still doesn't work try another bill if you have one, if not ask to trade someone for a crisp one that they don't want to give up in case they want candy later. zzzt-zooot, give up. Sit down and try to work hungry.

16) Oh, and we still have George on the quarter.

17) The design changes with the Sacagawea dollar did work. They are easy to distinguish from a quarter even by touch.

18) I actually don't get why people like the dollar bills so much. I think they're a pain.

Posted by Rick at December 15, 2003 04:34 AM

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