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« Truth In Advertising | Main | More Terrorism Opportunism »

Atrocities In Bethlehem?

Not a massacre, but gang rape and murder by Israeli soldiers, if this email is to be believed. I don't necessarily accept it as credible without further information.

If what he's saying is true, there should be many other witnesses who could confirm it. I'll leave it to others more familiar with the cultures over there to judge whether it rings true. Sometimes, regrettably, soldiers do do such things, even in the best of countries.

If it is true, of course, those responsible should be brought swiftly to justice (a much more likely outcome than if the situation were reversed), to demonstrate vividly the difference between Israel and her enemies (many of whom would likely reward their soldiers for such a thing, though probably not as much as if they simply blew them up).

How did I find this? As someone interested in the travel industry (via my interest in the adventure-travel market and space tourism) I'm a subscriber to a travel email update called eTurboGlobalTravelTradeNews, designed for travel professionals. They often receive emails and letters from people all around the world, and use them to provide additional color and background on the countries being discussed, but as they say, it's rare that they get anything from the West Bank.

Should they have run this without verifying its authenticity? They're not a formal news organization, and don't necessarily have either the journalistic experience, or the resources to do so. I don't know, and I hesitated to publish it myself.

But I'm figuring, if it's true, it's news. If it's false, like the mythical "Jenin massacre," it should be shown to be false, and one more lie to be added to the niagara of lies to come out of the area controlled by the Palestinian Authority, thus further diminishing their credibility (not that it will ever matter to their apologists in the Middle East, Europe, and Berkely).

Posted by Rand Simberg at May 02, 2002 07:13 AM

Comments

Like you, I'm skeptical about this. Like you, I beleive an aberrant act from an nation of honorable people can occur. But the rape of 86 women and the killing of many of the husbands? Now I'm really skeptical.

Posted by tom scott at May 2, 2002 09:07 AM

IF there is one thing that I've learned from my travels throughout the mid and far East, it is that Arabs have a love for truth.

Even when it comes to admitting their own mistakes and shortcomings, it is the truth that they seek. Why, even as they look around them, on the sacred ground in which they stand, so oil-rich, the gift can only come from Allah. They know that even though these riches abound in their land, the reason they are so poor and despot is those "Jews".

They are enlightened, and are able to get around such seemingly obvious cultural red-flags such as love for genocide, incited by their religious leaders. They hear 'jihad' and 'death to Israel', 'death to America!' and still know that Islam means 'peace'.

They know the truth of the 'green line'. The border-area between Israel and Arab land that is so called because on one side, peace between Arab and Jew and Christian...prosperity, Democracy, and value of human life stand as tall as the trees from whence the 'green line' is named.

On the other side is desparation, violence, 7th century laws, values that no century would claim, and a leadership of blood-thirsty murderers.

Arabs see this and know the truth; "NO! it's not the fault of the Arabs!, it is our oppressive neighbor, those Jews!".

"Anyting but our fault, and we shall strap bombs to our children and pain for their loss in order to drown out the sadness of our utter cultural and moral failure."

Okay, now I have to go take a shower with a Brillo pad to wash off all that sarcasm, but before I go:

At my last job, which I just left to move South, there were two Arabs in the next cube. One from Bahrain, one from Lebanon. I cannot to this day get over the fact that they would quote their state-run media day in and day out, and still claim that we Americans, with our free (albiet imperfect) medias (notice plural, different news services cross checking facts)were brainwashed by lies! Their state-run media was above reproach, even though it had the motivation of propping up corrupt governments, and our independant (Jew-run) media were lies lies lies.

Posted by DocZen at May 2, 2002 09:14 AM

Oh, I absolutely don't believe the eighty six--that's clearly just exaggerated hearsay, like the "hundreds" "massacred" in Jenin. I was only referring to the alleged first-hand description.

Posted by Rand Simberg at May 2, 2002 09:28 AM

How do you prove anegative? Given the "river of lies" already observed, I believe charges like this should be assumed false until proven otherwise.

Posted by Ralph Phelan at May 2, 2002 10:03 AM

I am making no assumption either way. But if this is a real person, it wouldn't be hard to verify.

Posted by Rand Simberg at May 2, 2002 10:10 AM

Fox just ran a tape of some diaper heads carrying a "body" wrapped in a flag. Ooops they dropped it. The "body" then stood up and climbed back into the coffin. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Someone needs to tell them in free countries other people own cameras not just the media.

Posted by Dr. Clausewitz at May 2, 2002 03:50 PM

"I want all readers of "Transterrestrial Musings" to know this. Last night, Rand Simberg came to my apartment. He bashed in the door. When he came in, he shot me in the leg, shattering my femur. He then stripped me naked and anally raped me. He also decapitated my dog and ate my fish.

I called the police but they say they can't help. I called the United Nations, but they won't even investigate. I don't understand why no one will help me.

Please forward this to everyone you know."

Now, please don't make any judgements one way or the other about whether this is true. Such things do happen, though, and if is really true, somebody really ought to do something about it.

Posted by Christopher "Spoons" Kanis at May 2, 2002 09:35 PM

"I am making no assumption either way. "

I was going to try to explain to you why that's the wrong thing to do, but "Spoons" did it so much better! Except that, to my admittedly limited knowledge, he doesn't have the reputation for mendacity that the Palestinians do.

Posted by Ralph Phelan at May 2, 2002 10:06 PM

Ummm....

Just for the record, I didn't actually do any of those things. Well, actually, I do eat a lot of fish, but it's for my heart. But not his.

Cross my heart and hope to die...

"He doesn't have the reputation for mendacity that the Palestinians do."

With a few more posts like this, he could easily develop one.

Posted by Rand Simberg at May 2, 2002 10:47 PM

This account is so nonsensically grandiose in so many ways I have no difficulty dismissing it as a complete fabrication.

These people at completely inept at knowing the difference between a plausible lie and a spectacular line of bullshit. They've misunderstood what the phrase 'Big Lie' means.

Not just rape, but gang rape.

Not just my sister but my pregnant sister. And in front of her 7-year-old, no less. But the kid is otherwise unharmed. They missed a great opportunity to suggest that Israel has a version of NAMBLA.

They shot my brother-in-law not once but three times! And he took hours to die! (Am I the only one who thinks it terribly remarkable that IDF soldiers are carrying weapons of such low caliber that they could hit someone in the neck three times and not cause immediate death, by decapitation if not blood loss?)

They not only stole all of her valuables but came over and took our stuff, too!

They insulted my mother!

They MAYBE caused my sister to have a miscarriage! (This idiot apparently has no idea of what happens in a miscarriage. The real thing leaves no room for doubt. At four months in the evidence is rather plain.)

And they did the same thing to over 86 other women! (Less than 90? More? An odd number to choose regardless.)

And yet the only place where this dreadful rampage has been reported is on a forum for travel agents? Have you guys heard from that widow in Nigeria? She's got a pretty sad story, too.

The fact that even the most sensationalist idiots in the Euro-press haven't mentioned this really makes me wonder what you were thinking, Rand. Its early yet, there's going to be a lot more and better bullshit spewing from that part of the world. Don't get suckered so easily.

Posted by Eric Pobirs at May 3, 2002 01:02 PM

I don't think I was "suckered." I stated my skepticism.

Posted by Rand Simberg at May 3, 2002 01:14 PM

I think that Rand is far closer to being right in this case than to being wrong: http://www.win.net/ratsnest/Articles/fog0000000206.html

Posted by John "Akatsukami" Braue at May 4, 2002 10:45 AM

As Mark Twain observed, "A good lie will have travled half way around the world while the truth is putting on her boots."

Also, as Carl Sagan counselled, "Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof."

My point is, it takes absolutely nothing to make something like this up. That alone should have weighed heavily against not repeating it at all.

My "allegation" above was meant to be absurdly fake in order to make a point, but some still seem to have missed it. What if, for example, I sent an e-mail around saying, "You know, my best friend was doing a little research about bloggers, and he discovered that Rand Simberg has two criminal convictions for child molestation in the state of Florida. You might want to take that into account when evaluating his views."

Now say, for example, that Andrew Sullivan posted a message on his site saying that he'd received the e-mail, and publishing it's contents. Imagine also that Sullivan used the same vague disclaimers that Simberg has here. "I don't necessarily accept it as credible.... If it is true, there should be other witnesses.... Unfortunately things like this still happen."

Now, would Simberg feel that he had been treated fairly by Sullivan? Of course not, and he'd be right. Sullivan would be rightly denounced for speading potentially libelous statements without a shred of backup. Vague disclaimers such as "I don't know if it's true but I heard that..." don't absolve an author from his responsibility not to abet rumors unbutressed by evidence.

The e-mail discussed in Simberg's post is, for all intents and purposes, a completely anonymous allegation with no suppoerting evidence (sure, there's a name, but we have no way to know if such a person even exists). If it were true, the person making the allegation (the allegator?) could and should tell whatever authorities are available and proceed from there. He could tell relief agencies, or reporters with the resources to actually investigate these claims before publishing them.

Our anonymous e-mailer didn't do these things, as far as we can tell. Instead, he sent a random e-mail to some travel service, in the hopes of spreading this serious allegation all around the world. Respectfully, Mr. Simberg, and in my ever so humble opinion, there's no reason that you should have repeated this here.

Posted by Chris 'Spoons' Kanis at May 4, 2002 05:59 PM

There is another difference. No soldiers were named. It was a generic slur (if not true). While I would be generally upset as an Israeli soldier, there's no way that I could know that it was false, unlike your allegation, which I absolutely know to be (unless I'm deranged...)

Posted by Rand Simberg at May 4, 2002 07:19 PM

John, Rand, I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree. 'Suckered' is exactly the term that comes to mind. You gave a forum to this ridiculous claim, which will now be endlessly repeated by the idiotarians and treated as having some veracity for having been given the benefit of the doubt on this site. The originator managed to get first eTurboGlobalTravelTradeNews to display this canard and in turn you drew still more to see it. If any 'real' journalist had done this he'd be pilloried across the anti-idiotarian portion of the blogosphere and worse still, believed by the likes of those who pay heed to MetaFilter and IndyMedia.

Pronouncements of skepticism are all well and good but save them and the associated material for claims that truly need to be publicly challenged rather than simply ignored as noise.

Posted by Eric Pobirs at May 5, 2002 01:44 AM

Rand: this phony letter was first published by our old friend, the Arab News, on April 4:

http://www.arabnews.com/SArticle.asp?sct=Bethlehem&ID=14205

Note that many of the details in the original "letter" were altered in the one you linked to.

Posted by Charles Johnson at May 5, 2002 01:54 AM

That's interesting, Charles--thanks. I wonder if anyone has told eTurboGlobalTravelTradeNews about this.

Posted by Rand Simberg at May 5, 2002 10:40 AM


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