No offense to European Jews but they were low single digit (1-2%) of the population before the Holocaust. Even if they had armed themselves they were hopelessly out-gunned by the Nazis. Who no doubt would have used the fact of their being armed as an excuse to exterminate/imprison them. Yes, we know they would have anyway, but don’t underestimate the power of propaganda. In no time Jews would have been blaming those armed Jewish “nuts” for provoking the Nazis.
Could be and even though there are tens of millions of conservatives in the USA, history is full of examples where a minority group ruthlessly ruled over a much larger population.
“Could be and even though there are tens of millions of conservatives in the USA, history is full of examples where a minority group ruthlessly ruled over a much larger population.”
Yes. Throughout history; but typically they are disarmed first. About 100 million gun owners possessing >200-300 million guns would be tough to disarm. No matter what quasi-legal gymnastics they do to dismember the Second Amendment (& eventually the rest of the Bill-of-Rights).
Albert O. Hirschman’s trilemma “Exit, Voice, and Loyalty” was not a mere thought experiment. He had tried all three, with varying success.
“Albert O. Hirschman’s trilemma “Exit, Voice, and Loyalty” was not a mere thought experiment. He had tried all three, with varying success.”
Well they (the Jews) couldn’t fight; hopelessly outnumbered/out-gunned; only benefit would be some kind of suicide attacks maybe sabotage/disrupt the holocaust trains. Might have delayed things probably would have saved thousands of lives; Nazi’s didn’t have all the time in world fighting a losing war on two fronts.
They couldn’t emigrate; see “Voyage of the Dammed”; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_St._Louis#The_“Voyage_of_the_Damned”
Basically no country would take them for the most part; very ugly chapter in world history. They could have protested all they wanted; given the ubiquitousness of anti-Semitism good luck with that. They were largely screwed no matter what the did; dependent on the decency (or lack thereof) of outside interests.
The Jews ought to have read Mein Kampf very carefully. All they needed to know about how the rules of the game had changed is right in there.
Maybe they read it but didn’t believe it. A mistake not to be repeated.
“Maybe they read it but didn’t believe it. A mistake not to be repeated.”
Okay suppose they had read every word of it and believed it…then what? What exactly do you suppose their options might have been?
Leave.
Better than any alternative.
Leave.
Better than any alternative.
If a book appears on Amazon tomorrow advocating the extermination of your ethnic group in your country would you leave your country?
I most likely would if I judged they were serious about killing me and I had little power to stop them…….especially if I had family – loved ones – to get out as well.
Better to live and fight another day.
Kristalnacht would tell me all I need to know if it happened today.
Remember..the whole point of the article is “Bias of Normalcy”…i.e. not seeing that the game has changed ..assuming everything is as it always was….and then being slaughtered because you didn’t see.
Well WWII and the holocaust warned me about how low people can sink. I take threats seriously. I take misused government power very seriously.
Democrats in the last 20 years have shown me how low people can sink…as has antifa-fascicsts. These groups have not sunk to the moral depravity of the Third Reich so I’m not disposed to leave. And there are still tools available to change the game.
What would you have done if it was November 12, 1938, you were Jewish, saw Kristalnacht, and knew the future as you know it now? Would you have stayed?
Stayed in Berlin or Munich where you live?
p.s. if just a book appeared – no.
If the writer of the book ascended to Chancellorship-level power?
Most likely yes I’d bug out. Especially if I was in the minority like the Jewish people were.
And just to be clear – when I ask you:
“What would you have done if it was November 12, 1938, you were Jewish, saw Kristalnacht, and knew the future as you know it now?”
What I mean is if you did NOT suffer from the Bias of normalcy. You read the book. That bastard is now chancellor and you are member of the Jewish minority, in November, 1938 Germany.
You’d stay?
What happened to our language? The word is “normality” not ” normalcy”.
Yeah you might not leave because someone publishes a book but when that group looks like getting in to power, time to bug out quick.
No offense to European Jews but they were low single digit (1-2%) of the population before the Holocaust. Even if they had armed themselves they were hopelessly out-gunned by the Nazis. Who no doubt would have used the fact of their being armed as an excuse to exterminate/imprison them. Yes, we know they would have anyway, but don’t underestimate the power of propaganda. In no time Jews would have been blaming those armed Jewish “nuts” for provoking the Nazis.
Could be and even though there are tens of millions of conservatives in the USA, history is full of examples where a minority group ruthlessly ruled over a much larger population.
“Could be and even though there are tens of millions of conservatives in the USA, history is full of examples where a minority group ruthlessly ruled over a much larger population.”
Yes. Throughout history; but typically they are disarmed first. About 100 million gun owners possessing >200-300 million guns would be tough to disarm. No matter what quasi-legal gymnastics they do to dismember the Second Amendment (& eventually the rest of the Bill-of-Rights).
Albert O. Hirschman’s trilemma “Exit, Voice, and Loyalty” was not a mere thought experiment. He had tried all three, with varying success.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit,_Voice,_and_Loyalty
“Albert O. Hirschman’s trilemma “Exit, Voice, and Loyalty” was not a mere thought experiment. He had tried all three, with varying success.”
Well they (the Jews) couldn’t fight; hopelessly outnumbered/out-gunned; only benefit would be some kind of suicide attacks maybe sabotage/disrupt the holocaust trains. Might have delayed things probably would have saved thousands of lives; Nazi’s didn’t have all the time in world fighting a losing war on two fronts.
They couldn’t emigrate; see “Voyage of the Dammed”;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_St._Louis#The_“Voyage_of_the_Damned”
Basically no country would take them for the most part; very ugly chapter in world history. They could have protested all they wanted; given the ubiquitousness of anti-Semitism good luck with that. They were largely screwed no matter what the did; dependent on the decency (or lack thereof) of outside interests.
The Jews ought to have read Mein Kampf very carefully. All they needed to know about how the rules of the game had changed is right in there.
Maybe they read it but didn’t believe it. A mistake not to be repeated.
“Maybe they read it but didn’t believe it. A mistake not to be repeated.”
Okay suppose they had read every word of it and believed it…then what? What exactly do you suppose their options might have been?
Leave.
Better than any alternative.
Leave.
Better than any alternative.
If a book appears on Amazon tomorrow advocating the extermination of your ethnic group in your country would you leave your country?
I most likely would if I judged they were serious about killing me and I had little power to stop them…….especially if I had family – loved ones – to get out as well.
Better to live and fight another day.
Kristalnacht would tell me all I need to know if it happened today.
Remember..the whole point of the article is “Bias of Normalcy”…i.e. not seeing that the game has changed ..assuming everything is as it always was….and then being slaughtered because you didn’t see.
Well WWII and the holocaust warned me about how low people can sink. I take threats seriously. I take misused government power very seriously.
Democrats in the last 20 years have shown me how low people can sink…as has antifa-fascicsts. These groups have not sunk to the moral depravity of the Third Reich so I’m not disposed to leave. And there are still tools available to change the game.
What would you have done if it was November 12, 1938, you were Jewish, saw Kristalnacht, and knew the future as you know it now? Would you have stayed?
Stayed in Berlin or Munich where you live?
p.s. if just a book appeared – no.
If the writer of the book ascended to Chancellorship-level power?
Most likely yes I’d bug out. Especially if I was in the minority like the Jewish people were.
And just to be clear – when I ask you:
“What would you have done if it was November 12, 1938, you were Jewish, saw Kristalnacht, and knew the future as you know it now?”
What I mean is if you did NOT suffer from the Bias of normalcy. You read the book. That bastard is now chancellor and you are member of the Jewish minority, in November, 1938 Germany.
You’d stay?
What happened to our language? The word is “normality” not ” normalcy”.
Yeah you might not leave because someone publishes a book but when that group looks like getting in to power, time to bug out quick.