…isn’t a crime, let alone an impeachable offense. It is time to rethink NATO, perhaps past time.
NATO and the EU have been free riding for a long time. It was an organization for a different era and power structure. Putin’s Russia doesn’t have the resources to conquer Europe, especially if they start getting serious about their own defense.
[Sunday-afternoon update]
Yes. Europe was never a true partner in its own defense. They had a (brief) excuse in the midst of the Marshall Plan, but we’ve been indulging them in their own socialism and unwillingness to spend on their own defense for the decades since recovery. Time to rethink it.
And for those who think that Trump is Putin’s “stooge,” did Putin order him to insist that Europeans spend more on their own defense and live up to their NATO obligations?
[Bumped]
Obama: “We have no special relation with the UK, and we need to reset relations with Russia”
Media: “We finally have a President that understands foreign policy”
Trump: “We are the only ones that meet the NATO obligations on defense. It is time Europe started paying their share, or we should leave the treaty.”
Media: “The President is a Russian puppet!”
” Putin’s Russia doesn’t have the resources to conquer Europe, especially if they start getting serious about their own defense.”
Rand, here’s a reply that is my attempt to be non-political, and even non-principled, except with respect to the principle of self-interest. Rather than an attempt to reflect my own feelings, this is my attempt to be like Kissinger, in the hopes, Rand, that this might persuade you:
Russia is a fascist country with nuclear weapons, scientific knowhow, vast natural resources, and expansionist ambitions. Lets not quibble over the word “fascist” – you know what I mean. If Iraq under Hussein was a threat, and I think it was, if Nazi Germany was a threat, and of course it was, then even today’s Russia, however weakened, is still far more of a threat. A threat to us. A growing threat for the future, a future in which history can be expected to repeat itself with respect to Russia. I don’t want to leave our civilization vulnerable to the whims and weaknesses of Europe. I want the United States military to protect our civilization, and the small expenditure we spend on NATO (5% of the defense budget), however fair or unfair, is well worth the cost. I don’t want Russia to gobble up Europe and make itself stronger as a result, nor do I want the United States to have to fight in Europe yet again to protect ourselves. NATO is a means to deter Russia. If our allies pay something too, that’s good, but the important thing is that NATO gives us early access to the European battlefield, and keeps a war from erupting there.
I have other arguments in favor of NATO too, some which I believe much more strongly, but since we don’t agree on ideology, I wanted to think about what we, as fellow Americans, might agree on. What you think of the above argument?
I’ll simply say that you seem to be more concerned about Putin than the Europeans are. If the EU wants to pretend to be a power, it should act like it.
Who said Russia wasn’t a threat? (Aside from Democrats for the last 50 years)
100% of the budget for the military supports NATO. Total military spending is supposed to be a percent of GDP. Our European partners haven’t been meeting those obligations and it is something that Obama complained about (without any effect) too.
It isn’t so much about money but how money spent should correlate with a competent military. While having some capable units, as a whole, most of our NATO partners have let their militaries degrade to the point where they are not capable of doing anything significant on their own.
The crazy thing is that the EU wants an army but it looks like it wouldn’t be for defense against Russia but used instead for stopping countries from leaving the EU.
Yeah it really isn’t the money it’s the principle of the thing. Yerps (Europeans) should pay their share and do their part. It’s the “free ride off the U.S.” aspect coupled with an extra layer of U.S.-loathing that is annoying.
Anyone who understand people, though, understand that the U.S. loathing in in part due tot he fact that the Yerps know they are not doing their part.
Russia has to be a consideration. They consider Eastern Yerp as a buffer zone – not an attack launching zone for the West.
I am in favor of NATO but our partners need to pull their weight. It is a great mechanism for maintaining our interests in Europe and also the interests of the few Europeans left who aren’t marxists.
Rather than rethinking NATO, we need to rethink how we apply our influence. But for that to happen, we need to revamp the State Department. The State Department has strayed from acting in America’s interests.
Trump was right that we need to use all the tools at our disposal to look out for what’s best for America, diplomacy, military, financial, and cultural. Trump left off culture but that is only because our cultural elite view the existence of the USA as illegitimate and are deep into marxist ideology.
I have been hearing similar complains at least since Clinton was POTUS. Remember the Bosnian Wars debacle?
However, that is lip service. Whenever someone proposes to make military investments in the EU that would make a real difference then the US complains. As they do whenever there is a proposal for an independent EU army. The fact is the US political elites are perfectly fine with keeping us in Europe as pliable as possible. This is particularly obvious after not only the colonial wars in the post WW2 period, but also in events like the Suez Crisis. Fact is, the UK and France could have been in a military union for decades already and that would have been enough of a bulwark to prevent a Soviet invasion of Europe. But neither the USA nor the Soviet Union were interested in that. So here we are. With the modern equivalent of a metastasized Holy Roman Empire’s armies.
So, what has NATO done for the USA? Well it’s gone to war with the USA in Afghanistan in case you fail to remember. For how many years now?