20 thoughts on “Shirtgate, And Common Decency”

1. The proper comeback:

   “Wearing that shirt, … he was just asking for it.”

2. I am amused by the assertion, stated in Mr. Goldberg’s and other essays, that our comet harpooning hero should have worn a “jacket and tie” for his moment of fame. The beltway crew seem to be projecting the customs of their tribe onto another. Steely-eyed missile men wear a clean white shirt, and maybe a loosened tie. If you throw in a crewcut, then you’ve got the look down pat.

   1. It would have been nice with a tie, but even if it was just office casual, there would have been no problem.

      1. See, I always imagine that tie getting caught in the gyroscopes.
         To paraphrase Edna Mode, “No ties!”

         1. I haven’t seen an actual, spinning gyroscope in years.

   2. Not a jacket… Missilemen wear vests.

      1. Well, he turned out to be a teary-eyed missile man.

3. I’m sure the Harpies would have been pleased had he been wearing a red plaid onsie and sipped cocoa.

4. I’m trying to imagine the inverse, and I can’t see me being upset if a woman wore a He-Man or Tarzan shirt. I would think it’s cool that she’s into that stuff. If they want to be casual in their workplace, I don’t care.

   1. Men are different from women — at least, that’s what many on the right wing keep telling me – so don’t introduce another variable, and instead, picture a man wearing a shirt which depicted a bunch of men in jockstraps.

      I’m serious here: many men and women view males as more threatening or at least, more sexually forward,, so it makes sense that the offensive shirt should be worn by a man in the original case and in your test case.

      Also: Tarzan and He-Man would be equivalent to Wonder Woman. (Or, if not wonder woman, then some famous character like that – I’m absolutely sure that there are readers here who know more about the world of comics than me, not that there is anything wrong with that.) My point is that we’re used to seeing Tarzan in a loin cloth. I’m not homosexual or, I hope, homophobic, but I think of Tarzan as less sexual than some random dude dressed the same way. Also, loin clothes have a non-sexual cultural component, while the ladies on the shirt were dressed in a way that was s_e_xual (right?) So, you need to depict some random guys in clothing that is both scanty and suggests s_e_x, for a reasonable comparison.

      1. And the point of this being . . .

         1. I’m trying to help Jonathan Card do what he said he was trying to do. He said “I’m trying to imagine the inverse”, so I gave him comments that I hope will be helpful to him, and to anyone else with that goal.

            1. Tarzan and He-man equivalent to Wonder Woman? At least we got that straightened out . . .

         2. If you’re trying to figure out where I stand, I agree with Ken White, whose link Rand shared with us earlier this week. Here it is again: http://www.popehat.com/2014/11/17/shirts-and-shirtiness/ Ken White’s point is that it is hard for us to figure out what message was being sent (if any) and it was hard for the scientist in question to figure out how his attire would be received. There is too much ambiguity here to be sure that something should or shouldn’t cause offense, and so Jonathan Card’s attempt to imagine the inverse situation is probably going to have limited utility, even though it is better than nothing.

            Also: Ken White’s comment about “playgirl” in the cops’ locker room was what made me realize that the inverse situation to the comet landing involves a man wearing a shirt depicting partially nude men in the workplace.

            1. As a certified SF geek, I am 99 percent certain that he thought it was a cool shirt. The designs look like pulp SF, and that art is loved by many. If he got it from his girlfriend, he thought he would do her the honor of wearing it in an interview. I don’t think there’s any reason to analyze it any further.

            2. I had the impression that they were just friends, not romantic, but probably, yeah.

   2. well you are forgetting one thing though .. it couldn’t just be tarzan or he-man .. because breasts were all enourmous on the shirt.. .the men would have had to be totally naked EXCEPT for a HUGE overblown cod piece… I mean … HUGE and only half covered… like the low cuts on the breasts…… lol

      Then see if any men thought that was inapporpriate to a have a enourmous codpiece showing up next to you.

5. This blue comet upon which we dwell is now simply swimming in meaningless feelings. Everybody has feelings. Feelings have become as ubiquitous and as faux “important” as the latest narcissist Facebook update you saw of someone’s check-in, or what they happen to “think” about something.

   This guy is spot on. Watch for the profanity.

   http://freetheanimal.com/2014/11/gaudy-shirt-woman.html

6. Next bunch of misogynistic pigs : Mattel. They pulled the book and apologized. It’s like its raining misogyny all over

7. How many here remember the days when it used to be said of the puritanical Right that they were deathly afraid that somebody, somewhere, might be having a good time? How times change…

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