48 thoughts on “Water On Mars”

  1. I would recommend drilling a bunch of dry holes in a rock, which gets a drill bit very, very hot (depending on their available power), along with the rock dust. It would be easy in a lab to put microbes on a drill bit, drill some holes, and check the survival rate.

  2. That is why we have the Chinese, Indians, and Evil Corporations.

    Actually many years ago I started worrying about this. It occurred to me that when it came time to go to Mars “they” would not let us go. I have been of late buoyed by the fact that as of now it appears when the time does come the US Government will no longer be a player and the greenies will be a noisy but generally harmless adjunct of the Party.

    The real issue is to get off planet. We can sort out the politics later.

  3. On the one hand, from a scientific perspective you don’t want to contaiminate the area where you’re searching for Martian life. Doing so will make the search for natural lifeforms harder and potentially, the Earth microbes would be an invasive species that could upset any potential Martian ecosystem we want to study.

    On the other hand, there will come the day that environmentalists will have to be told to shut up and color. They’ve done tremendous damage to the economy.

  4. Didn’t Curiosity just travel millions of miles through the vacuum of space subjected to intense solar / cosmic radiation and extreme heat / cold of space? What could have survived the trip?

  5. First comment that I see at the LATimes:
    If the microbes survive, in a billion years people will evolve on the planet and be able to DESTROY Mars like they DESTROYED Earth….

    Alright then, I guess the solution is to DESTROY the microbes. I second George’s solution. On another note, what’s the lubrication used on the drill bits to prevent overheating? Is there any lubrication?

  6. We should just embrace the idea of being an invasive species. Those Greens don’t seem to mind living in California, despite humans having evolved at the complete opposite end of the globe and much of the CA environment being purposefully engineered.

    We go where we will; we do as we will. To the extent we care about the environment, it’s only enlightened self-interest.

  7. I’m starting to think that Martian settlements will be sustained by scientific research and tourism. (Eco-tourism, perhaps, if there is any “eco.”)

    The more we learn about the Martian environment, the more toxic it becomes. You can survive by carefully isolating yourself from the regolith (extreme cleanliness) but there will always be accidents.

    If survival depends on rigorously isolating yourself from the Martian environment, perhaps you’d be better off in space, where the isolation is complete. Toxicity gives new strength to Gerard O’Neill’s argument that a planetary surface may not be the best place for a space settlement.

    1. Edward,

      Yes, as Dr. Asimov pointed out in the 1960’s, mobile habitats in open space are the true future for humanity.

      Asimov, Issac (1966), “There’s No Place Like Spome”, in Atmosphere in Space Cabins and Closed Environments, edited by Karl Kammermeyer, American Chemical Society.

  8. One consequence of such a find that wasn’t mentioned is that whatever water is found would be declared navigable by the US Army Corps of Engineers, and placed under its management. The upside is that soon after that happens, the once arid surface of Mars will flood on a regular basis…

    1. The Corps of Engineers will have to take a number and stand in line. The EPA will declare any Martian dampness to be a protected “wetland” and fine NASA for operating a motor vehicle there.

      1. Actually Article 9 of the Outer Space Treaty already provides justification for protection by prohibiting harmful contamination. It’s already used by NASA as justification for its planetary protection protocols.

        http://planetaryprotection.nasa.gov/

        The big worry is not about Mars as its a dead end for space settlement, its that an empowered Planetary Protection office would expand its guidelines to other objects.

        http://planetaryprotection.nasa.gov/

        In this light its a good thing President Obama pulled the plug on future Mars missions.

        1. He did? I don’t think he has much to do with that sort of decision. But NASA _is_ going back to Mars very soon. Perhaps it is TiME you got some InSight into this Martian matter. (I was rooting for TiME.)

          1. I mean, what US President could resist inserting the following phrase into a speech?

            “The first nautical exploration of an extraterrestrial sea”

          3. From what I remember reading, Obama scrapped the Mars mission with ESA and then a few weeks after MSL landed announced a new Mars mission InSight.

            Zubrin’s article was written after the cancellation of the ESA mission and prior to the announcement of InSight.

  9. That white stuff in the poles on Mars sure looks like water ice to me. Someone has run a spectrometer analysis on it and surely enough it has the same base components. There are some people who claim it is ice but of something other than water but I think they are clutching at straws here.

  10. Just as the support for NASA/space exploration is a mile wide and an inch deep. the same is true for most enviromental issues unless it is a very local issue like safe water.

    When the nuclear material was launched on the Horizon probe to Pluto there was a hew and cry that the anti nuke people were going to close it down with massive protests… a couple hundred showed up.

    A lot to do about nothing, until life is actually found. I highly doubt NASA is going to have million man marches against going to mars.

  11. i agree. Life on Mars will kill any hopes of humans setting foot on it, let along building settlements on it.

    That is why any plan for settling the Solar System that has Mars as a element is really a non-starter.

  12. planetary protection officials

    You should sign up for that job Thomas.

    Are there no men on this planet? We should contaminate the hell out of mars. To claim land they should piss their signatures on it.

    It’s not a sandbox; it’s a planet. They’ve already contaminated us.

    Crap like this guarantees that martians will be libertarians that will probably fly a flag with a middle finger prominent.

    1. Ken,

      Why? Just because I point out it exists and will be a problem for folks focused on Mars?

      If you go into business you look for show stoppers like that before betting your money, so they don’t surprise you when they occur.

      1. I just like picking on ya Thomas. You’re such a good sport about it.

        You are correct that due diligence is important. However, I am appalled and amazed that people would let some deliberative body take away the liberty and freedom that cost so much in blood to get. These idiots need to be ignored because there seems no way to eliminate them.

        1. Ken,

          And you will be able to, once you aren’t depended on them for basic life support. But until then you need to keep below the radar or they will crush you with a pile of lawyers.

          Remember the great scene in “Destination Moon” where the Sheriff is stopped at the gate with an Injection to stop the launch just as the rocket lifts off? Robert Heinlein knew the game.

  13. Politically I think it very likely that there is water and bacteria on Mars. Engineering wise there is really only thing we can’t change about a planet, it’s gravitational mass. With Mars being only about 1/3 our gravity, it would make living there, on a long term basis, physiologically difficult. There is a better solution politically and physically. It may take a few more years but the end results would be FAR better. Terraform Venus! Politically, we KNOW there isn’t anything any sane scientist would consider alive down there. So all we need to do is block half the light and bombard it in such a way to make its day faster. Easy 😀

    1. Ryan,

      Yes, series of massive comets impacting at an angle to the equator should do it while delivering the water the planet needs. Then just seed the clouds with some genetically engineered extremophiles to produce the proper atmosphere. Part of the clouds could be used to create a sulphide layer to reflect excess sunlight. And you have Earth 2, just waiting for us.

      1. I was thinking more of orbital smart dust to absorb excess light. Then hit it with the comet. It might be easier to regulate. Add a few tons of genetically engineered Miracle-gro biosphere life starter kit and wait. Sure it might take 1e4±1 years… But give me a nice new robot body and I’ll wait. I’m a patent man. 🙂 Besides it would be good practice for when we need to do this sort of thing elsewhere.

    2. Of course we’ll tackle venus one day, but that’s a huge engineering problem and we won’t get it right, right away. Mars we can start settling in 2 to 20 years. I’d like to see it happen before I’m too old to care.

  14. This sounds like a typical screw up at NASA (which is common to bureaucracies). Someone does something outside normal protocol and then does not tell anyone until it is too late to do anything about it.

    I think the planetary protection lady has a point. One of the purposes of sending probes to Mars is to look for indigenous life. If the drill bit is contaminated with Earth microbes, and the get out and spread around on Mars, that kind of ruins the scientific exploration for indigenous life.

    I don’t agree with the “Greenie” position at all. However, I think it useful to try to prevent contamination with Earth life in order to research indigenous life (if there is any). If there is indigenous life, its similarities and differences from Earth life would indicate much about life in the rest of universe (like if its DNA based, and if so, does it use the same base pairs, etc.).

    1. After the Earth bacteria from Curiosity reproduce, their offspring will be native born and enjoy all the rights and protections as indigenous Martian life. If there are bacteria riding on Curiosity, that’s already happened.

      So now we have foreign aliens in California driving around a $2.5 billion dollar RV packed with Martian-born baby bacteria who just want to find a home, and nobody is thinking of the children.

      1. Yes. Think of the children. The important thing is to figure out how to raise money which will then be laundered into some democrats reelection campaign… for the children. While blaming rich (can’t let an opportunity for class warfare to slip by) republicans for the contamination of course.

  15. exploration for indigenous life

    If we can’t tell the difference? If we find life on mars, only in the most limited cases would it be difficult to tell if it was indigenous or contamination. Well, unless we only do it by poking around with robots. I assume we will have on site scientist to settle the matter. With humans on site we could contaminate like busy beavers and never do enough harm to prevent scientist from doing their job.

    We could of course, kill all humans in order to prevent them from contaminating 10^20+ or so star systems. Yeah, that would be best. /sarc

  16. ryan, how do we know that living on Mars long term will be physiologically difficult? AFAIK there have been no long term studies due to lack of a reduced gravity facility on the ISS.

    1. Mike,

      Yes, and no chance to build such a facility while the ISS Tar Baby soaks up all the HSF money in sight.

      Pity they were able to fix the ISS power system last week…

  17. Kim Stanley Robinson fictionally covered a lot of this in his ’90’s Mars Trilogy (Red;Blue;Green).
    Of course his beloved anti-capitalism/enviro-whackos were outraged that the lifeless planet would be ecologically destroyed by evil life and sabotaged the life-bringers at every opportunity.

    1. Martians are going to need water TODAY. The problem is settlers need to man up (or fight like a girl, either works.) It doesn’t matter what road blocks are put in their way. Settlers need to take charge of their future and ignore the idiots.

      When somebody can look up at the stars and say it’s the common heritage of mankind so nobody can own any of it (except defacto by the state) those people are idiots and should be marginalized in all possible manner which includes just ignoring them (you don’t argue with idiots.)

      1. Ken,

        If you haven’t read Issac Asimov’s “The Martian Way” you should. You will enjoy what his “Martians’ do to the politicians on Earth 🙂

  20. Sheer paranoia. Even in the extremely unlikely event there is life there, it won’t be life that Earth organisms are evolved to it.

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