This story is sadly all too typical (and yes, I expect the usual suspects to chime in and say that real Muslims aren’t really like that — they’re just a few “extremists”):
A kebab shop owner, asked on German TV what he would do if Sila were his daughter, replied: “I would kill her. I really mean that. That doesn’t fit with my culture.”
Well, I have to say that I wouldn’t be that thrilled if it were my daughter, either. But I am absolutely certain that my response would not be to kill her. It would never even enter my mind.
This reminds me very much of Mark Steyn’s story of true multiculturalism in British India:
In a more culturally confident age, the British in India were faced with the practice of “suttee” – the tradition of burning widows on the funeral pyres of their husbands. Gen. Sir Charles Napier was impeccably multicultural:
“You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: When men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks, and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours.”
Of course, it wouldn’t do the young woman who posed for Playboy much good if her murderer were afterward hanged. One would like to prevent it. But how to do so, without wiping out the belief system itself? We marginalized one just as vile (and sadly related, given the alliance between the Mufti of Jerusalem and Germany at the time), decades ago. What will it take to do so again?
arm them, teach them to defend each other.
Bob-1 on deck defending kebab shop owner as being “not typical of most Muslims” in 3… 2… 1…
I think it’s wonderful that there are in fact, truly brave Muslim people out there that will go against all the odds and really, show the true beauty of the Arab people. Certainly no reason to hide so much what is enjoyable in life behind sullen drapes of shame.
Prior to the Iranian revolution and the fall of the USSR, Muslims were, on the whole, becoming very westernized and even secular. This was particularly true in Turkey. Which means the radicalization of the Turkish immigrants being discussed here is a relatively recent event.
Question: Has the decline of western culture in general rendered it susceptible to similar subversion by radical islam? E.G. Does radical Islam become an attractive alternative for young men to andristic and discriminatory feminism – which more and more carries the force of law in the west? Does it tempt Christians who are under a sustained media attack in the west, to convert to Islam, which is not only defended but feared by the media?
= German American Bund
We can’t, really; ideological murderers are too stupid and delusional to be rationally deterred.
OTOH, slugs that purport to be part of that belief system, but are really looking out for Number One, will give playing convinced ideologue once it is made clear to them that if they act, they die.
Until minority report becomes reality I think you must take somebody at their word. We have the technology to handle the information. Do we have the will to marginalize those that express barbarism?
Western society once had a pretty good code of ethics generally understood. Murder someone and expect to be hanged. We’ve muddied up those waters and yes, this allows further erosion to take place.
I don’t think people have ever had a more stressful environment than what exists today. Children are in charge.
“Well, I have to say that I wouldn’t be that thrilled if it were my daughter, either.”
You gotta give the Muslims this much credit – they know how to discourage behavior they aren’t thrilled by. That’s more than the West can say.
Brock Says:
“You gotta give the Muslims this much credit – they know how to discourage behavior they aren’t thrilled by. That’s more than the West can say.”
Neither can lots of muslims say it as evidenced by the 16 year old girl that was run over by her father just recently.
I think it would be a bold, brave and commendable gesture of solidarity with Sila and other independent-minded Muslim women if Sarah Palin were to pose nude for PLAYBOY.
Bilwick, it would be worth it just to hear the holws from the hypocritical “feminists” and to “read it for the articles.”
A story from years ago.
A Somali friend of my ex, after a few glasses of wine told us the story of how she left Somalia.
She got pregnant by a French aid worker. After a few days locked up in the family home, her father took her for a drive out into the countryside. She knew what was coming – with her out if the way (only child) there were alot of cousins to inherit his small warlord position.
He stopped in the dark in the middle of nowhere. Then he gave her a package of money, documents and plane tickets and told her to drive for the border. He’d taught her to drive….
She asked why he was getting out- he replied that the rest of the family hadn’t believed he would do it and were following. So he got out, to wait for them in the road. A little old man and an AK.
As she drove off she saw the lights of the cars following them in the distance.
All she heard afterwards was that her father was dead, and a number of the cousins had died around the same time.
Wow, Malmesbury, Life Is Beautiful.
Driving while Jewish, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jMB5kJ3P12k
This link shows the charred remains of the recent Muslim on Christian violence in Nigeria. DON’T CLICK ON THE LINK if you don’t want to see the image. http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/207537.php
A British group, Muslims Against the Crusades had this to say about the wedding on Friday;
“We will not be participating and demonstrating, we are withdrawing our souls due to the risk of an attack. We believe it is highly likely, it is a prime target. ”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-wedding/8476705/Muslim-group-claims-royal-wedding-is-legitimate-terror-target.html
Skip ahead to the 4 min mark where Jones is told to show his bravery by protesting in Afghanistan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUtN-NH4G6A&feature=player_embedded
Perhaps that is not the best way to defend the religion of peace.
From behind the NYT paywall
“Ms. Logan, a CBS News correspondent, was in the square preparing a report for “60 Minutes” on Feb. 11 when the celebratory mood suddenly turned threatening. She was ripped away from her producer and bodyguard by a group of men who tore at her clothes and groped and beat her body. “For an extended period of time, they raped me with their hands,” Ms. Logan said in an interview with The New York Times. She estimated that the attack lasted for about 40 minutes and involved 200 to 300 men.”
“She declined to go into more detail about the assault but said: “What really struck me was how merciless they were. They really enjoyed my pain and suffering. It incited them to more violence.””
TO: All
RE: Heh
Glad to see that others are beginning to ‘catch on’ about this.
I’ve had this suspicion since a few days after 9/11, when I walked into a middle eastern market in Denver and heard the happy chatter of the occupants suddenly cease…..as if a six-foot gunslinger had walked into a saloon in some old western movie.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out….]
TO: All
RE: What He….Akatsukami….Said
….ideological murderers are too stupid and delusional to be rationally deterred. — Akatsukami
I think that a grand jury in Michigan put it into proper context when they indirectly put into case law, earlier this week, that Muslims cannot be expected to behave as rational human beings, vis-a-vis Pastor Terry Jones effort to hold a demonstration outside a Mosque in that state.
They decided that Muslims would not behave as rational human beings in the face of open criticism in a free society and would attack Pastor Jones for his critical opinion of Islam.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out….even from the most unexpected sources….]
Arabs are xenophobes with a major Inferiority complex that invented a religion that puts the Arab male as the most perfect thing Allah ever created. Every thing else is below him. Until we expose islam for the fraud it is nothing will change with them.
BTW I lived my first year in college with a Kuwati national who came to this country to learn engineering. He spent most of the first semester trying to explain my dhimmi status in his world.
Life is beautiful?
Try this angle…. Achilles broke every rule of his society and had co Parkin for the father of his foe. Some people rise above their societies. All we can do is remember.
Face it or not, we are in a war for the very survival of Western culture.
Either the West will prevail or Islam will prevail. There can be no close proximity co-existence.
The West can co-exist with a geographically remove Islam, but not with Islam intermixed in Western Society. Islam is fundamentally violent and driven by a fundamental hate of non-believers. Convert or face humiliating subjugation; those are the choices. Face the problem today or your children will be praying five times a day in a world of darkness unimaginable in Wester society.
Islam cannot coexist with any society except Islam and even then only in a turbulent state of constant culling of any sign of resistance to complete submission to the will of every Imam alive.
Like it or not, that is the state of affairs we find ourselves in. We are not a fundamentally violent society, but we find ourselves confronted with a creed of hate taught to infants and elderly alike. A creed of high reproductive potential that will out-breed us four to one. Islam must be contained in ignorance and isolation or we will cease to exist as a free people.
This is the future Muhammad gave to the world. Now we must decide. Do we resist or go quietly into the night?
TO: Paul B, et al.
RE: Not Even Then…..
Until we expose islam for the fraud it is nothing will change with them. — Paul B
….will they change. It’s become a—pardon the expression—metaphysical think. And with that, you get into some REALLY sticky territory.
These people believe they fight for god. However, there are a number of solid arguments that they fight for the other camp.
In the meantime, as long as they believe as they do, they will continue to do the evil that they are so fond of: mayhem, murder and the desire to dominate the rest of the world with their ‘religion’.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The influence of the religion [Islam] paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world — Winston Churchill, 1899]
P.S. I highly recommend to any officer, commissioned or not, to read Churchill’s account of the fourth(?) Afghan war, c. late 1800s. It will provide good insight to the nature of their form of warfare.
[Know your enemy. Sun Tzu, The Art of War]
P.P.S. Speaking of the ‘meta-physical’. How many here recognize the fulfillment of prophecy from that Old Book….as in….
And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him…. — Gen 16:12
The ‘he’ mentioned is Ishmael. And he, as I understand the Arabs profess, is their forefather from Abraham.
This is a good demonstration of why Islam, and not merely some “misguided” subset of Muslims, must be regarded as the enemy.
Islam is the base of the culture from which this madness springs. It encourages its devotees to be irrationally evil, and therefore not deterrable. Nothing can be done about the evils that derive from it without eradicating it.
I’ve strained for some other solution for ten years. I’ve failed. Anyone who thinks he can do better is welcome to try.
I really think it’s the weak horse/strong horse theory. Why shouldn’t Arabs (and other cultures) hold Western culture in scorn, when so much of the Western culture itself does so? And attacks it non-stop (not violently, but ideologically? Virtually very aspect of modern media is full of Western self-loathing, from the news to movies to even books.
Toynbee was right – great civilizations aren’t murdered, they commit suicide. It remains to be seen if we’ve just got the blade at our throat, or are watching the blood spurt out.
TO: JeremyR
RE: ‘Scorn’???!?!
It’s not merely ‘scorn’. Scorn only adds to the issue. The root-cause problem is their insistence on world domination. And such domination is to be achieved by the sword, e.g., jihad.
This ‘war’ has been going on for over a millennium.
If you’re a student of history and military studies, you’ll notice the flow and ebb. It stems from the initial conquests of Islam, up through their overrunning Spain. That ‘offensive’ was stopped at the Battle of Tours in France, when they moved over the Pyrennes.
The counter-offensive was the Crusades.
After that, having failed in Western Europe, the Muslims attempted the eastern approach, vis-a-vis the Ottoman Empires excursion into Eastern Europe. It was stopped at the Battle of Vienna.
The next Western counter-offesnsive was rather ‘indirect’ in nature. It was brought about by the First World War and the Europeans overran what was left of the tottering Ottoman Empire. They carved up the Middle East amongst themselves as a result of their victory over the German-Hungarian-Ottoman alliance.
NOW we have the latest offensive on the part of the Muslims. It started with the establishment of Israel and has slowly grown to what we witness today.
And it will keep on growing, probably—much as you suggest—brought on by the Wests own overindulgence in ennui and angst.
It’s all rather ‘interesting’, if you can look at it in a detached way. However, it’s rather difficult to be ‘detached’ when someone has a dull knife at your throat.
Don’t you think?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Qui desert pacem, preparate bellum.]
I’m just glad I don’t have any daughters.
I guess the “true beauty” of arab women relies on their taking off their clothes. sarc/off
“We can’t, really; ideological murderers are too stupid and delusional to be rationally deterred.”
Bullshit. We deterred ideological murderers just fine in WWII. Of course, that’s because queuing up for food in the rubble of your city is a much better deterrent than being able to sue in court over making sure it’s halal.
“I would kill her. I really mean that. That doesn’t fit with my culture.”
Cheering for the Yankees doesn’t fit with our culture. No doubt that makes it OK to whack anyone with a NY hat?
JeremyR Says:
April 28th, 2011 at 4:02 pm
Send all “Progressives” to the middle east. If they survive, they won’t be “Progressives” anymore. Culture problem solved.
TO: Bill Maron
RE: Taking a Page from History
Send all “Progressives” to the middle east. If they survive, they won’t be “Progressives” anymore. Culture problem solved. — Bill Maron
I recall reading Costello’s Pacific War and the account of Chesty Puller(?) at Iwo Jima.
The Japanese were launching a massive banzi assault on the Marine positions. The Marines were in dire need of reinforcements. So the commander called back for more men to throw into the battle. The man in the rear who got the call for reinforcements told the commander, “All we’ve got left a clerks and cooks.”
The commander replied…..
Send them all up. If any of them are alive in the morning, they’ll will be Marines
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived. — Marine Corps Rules for Gunfighting]
Billr and Francis W. Porretto: you are correct. There can be no compromise with Islam. We can’t all get along. Ultimately, it will come down to Them or Us.
I choose Us.
Billr Says:
April 28th, 2011 at 2:57 pm
Bill, is that what you really think or are you just parodying the the popular image of deranged Islamists?
TO: Andrew W
RE: “Popular Image”
Tell US, Andy, what other reasons for that ‘image’ than:
[1] The mass murder with beheading in Afghanistan after someone burned a Koran.
[2] The court system declaring, indirectly, that Muslims can’t be trusted to behave in a peaceful manner when openly criticized.
I won’t hold my breath.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. If you disbelieve this ‘popular image’, I defy you to go into Mecca and burn a Koran.
P.P.S. Some additional—as we call them in the Army—’indicators’….
[3] The call to murder Salmun Rushdi for wrtting a book.
[4] The calls for murdering the publishers of cartoons about Mohammed.
[5] The call to murder that gorgeous woman on Playboy.
[6] The mass murders of 9/11, 3/11 and 7/7.
I’m sure others can provide more examples.
P.P.P.S. Hey….Andrew W….
…EXPLAIN THIS….
http://patterico.com/2011/04/30/anti-terry-jones-riot-in-dearborn-msm-bias-on-display/
P.P.P.P.S. Looks like you won’t have to go to Mecca to burn that Koran.
Just go to Dearborn, Michigan…..
Chuck, calm down!
All I’m saying is that I thought Bill did a really good job duplicating the way deranged Islamists are portrayed, you know, the whole ranting and frothing at the mouth thing, I thought it was brilliantly done, I’m sure not disputing the accuracy, it’s just I’m not that familiar with the actuality, but for all I know the image is bang on.
Once again, well done Bill!
TO: Andrew W
RE: Calm Down?
Why? When I see the sort of tripe you had put out earlier, about parody. It’s hard to satirize mass murder, unless you think you’re an up-and-coming replacement for Monty Python. And even John Cleese has fled London because of what is going on there vis-a-vis the Muslims.
Now if you’re back-peddling….great.
But it’s not just the ‘deranged Islamists’ that are the problem. It’s the so-called ‘moderates’ that allow the former to behave in such an evil manner. Don’t you think? They don’t condemn their own, let alone ‘police’ them.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out….one way or another….]
I see your point Chuck, what we need is more moderates, people like me but on the Muslim side, who will point out that their brothers are just deranged warmongers.
TO: Andrew W
RE: More ‘Moderates’, Anyone
Great idea. GO FOR IT!
You can start in Dearborn.
However, be advised….
….as I stated earlier in this thread there are aspects of Islam that make your probability of success highly unlikely. And, as I recall, you may even be attacked or arrested or possibly even killed for your efforts. After all, a court in Michigan found—indirectly—that Muslims are irrational and likely to become violent if confronted by people who want to change them.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Looking forward to your reports from Dearborn.
a court in Michigan found—indirectly—that Muslims are irrational and likely to become violent if confronted by people who want to change them.
What, you mean people like Stockham? I’m not surprised.
there are aspects of Islam that make your probability of success highly unlikely.
Sigh, to be honest, I don’t rate my chances of talking down the warmongers on this side of the fence too highly either.
TO: Andrew W
RE: Stockham
Who is that?
RE: Warmongers?
You won’t even talk down the so-called ‘moderates’.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The influence of the religion [Islam] paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world — Winston Churchill, 1899]
P.S. Churchill had more direct experience with Islam than both of us put together. Read his accounts of the Fourth(?) Afghan War and the War in the Sudan (against the Mahdi). He served in both.