…from the trapped Chilean miners. My thoughts over at Popular Mechanics.
6 thoughts on “What NASA Can Learn”
Another great article Rand, but I have some nits to pick…
[The miners] had it a lot better than what will happen to astronauts when things go exactly as planned.
Only if we lack the vision to do it right.
The miners had abundant water and, with the run of the entire mine below the cave-in, plenty of room to exercise, dispose of waste and get away from each other for privacy and quiet time.
Restrictive plans don’t have to be the plans we choose. Some limits on ship will have to be suffered (hopefully not the limited plans being developed) but once on mars they could find a natural cavern and have all of the above in spades and that’s just to start out with.
They will presumably have standard-issue astrofood, like that used on the International Space Station (with extra hot sauce to compensate for the effects of weightlessness)
Perhaps like this? thrivefoodstorage.com, but one of the reasons for choosing mars is because growing food there should happen rather quickly.
no shower (sponge baths only)
We will do better once we put our minds to it.
…communications with the rest of humanity will likely be low bandwidth
Not if provided with enough power (am I being naive?)
no video, at least most of the time
Why not? I would expect this to be the most used method for most communication. Text being reserved for more technical communications (Unless bandwidth really is the limitation you suggest.)
a several-minute delay
Well ok, we’re not likely to develop subspace radio anytime soon (although quantum entanglement suggests a possible area of research.)
Astronauts on a deep-space mission will have no such supply source—what they leave with is what they’ll have, and what they’ll be able to have won’t be much.
That does not have to be the case. Give them a spaceship with lots of internal volume because it’s perfectly doable. Then oversupply them, not on the ship, but at the destination. The miners were restricted by the size of the hole, but there is really no limit to what the astronauts could have waiting for them.
It doesn’t have to be all that expensive to do this. The critical need is for a reusable vehicle to go back and forth from the surface of mars to orbit. Sending most supplies to orbit rather than all the way to the surface will save quite a bit of cost. A fuel station on the surface is a critical requirement to do this. Multiple landers should be part of the mission.
However, an oversupply really should be waiting for them on the surface in any case.
If anything, I think this case shows that we underestimate the psychological endurance of people.
Good article Rand.
Rand,
I am surprised that no where in the article did you mention that a NASA psychologist has been working with the ones in Chile to help the miners since August, so the arrow is actually the other way and this was a great application of the research that NASA has been doing in this area.
Actually a far better title would have been “How NASA psychology research helped the Chilean miners survive”. But perhaps that could be your follow-up article 🙂
FYI from a PBS interview with NASA psychologist Albert Holland.
[[[In August, he went to Chile to advise officials there on how to help the 33 miners trapped underground — a long-term confinement situation not so different from a space flight. Holland spoke to the NewsHour Thursday.]]]
[[[So it was a situation that was made to order for us. We felt very comfortable giving technical advice on that. So we went down on the 30th of August and stayed about a week, and talked to our counterparts down there and gave them advice. And then since that time we’ve been in touch by e-mail. ]]]
[[[They had not yet changed to long-duration thinking — they were moving that way but hadn’t yet completed the turn. So I tried to get the miners, the families and the topside officials thinking in terms of a marathon rather than a sprint. I was telling them about self-regulaiton, how individuals need to regulate their emotions. ]]]
[[[Another major area we talked about were circadian rhythms, and regulating the sleep-wake cycle. When you’re in a dimly lit mine like that, for long periods of time, you can start to do what’s called “free-running.” That’s where your internal clocks tend to get out of synchrony. You can be sleeping at the wrong time and awake at the wrong time, and everyone gets on their own schedule — and it doesn’t do well for team dynamics or community health. ]]]
Really Al Holland and NASA deserve a well done for this part of the rescue mission as well.
Others have already made the point about how NASA helped them — it was one of the main aspects of the story. But they had no help from NASA for the first two and a half weeks. That’s where NASA may get some new data.
Rand,
Again, NASA was on it. But since you clearly didn’t read the Interview I linked to…
From the Interview.
[[[How does what these miners went through compare to astronauts’ experience?
There are similarities and differences.]]]
[[[The miners had been thrust into the situation; they hadn’t wanted to be there, they hadn’t spent their lives trying to get there. And they didn’t know when they’d be getting to come out. Normally our people know “Ok, your landing date is here, give or take a week or two.” And so they can pace themselves, they can look forward to that time. And it’s much, much easier to bear versus when you don’t know when you’ll be rescued or how long you’ll be down there. ]]]
Which pretty much makes your argument irrelevant…
Thomas,
Let me rebut the assertions that the psychologist you quoted made. It appears, that, in fact, the miners helped themselves more than the psychologists did. Brendan O’Neill has an article in Spiked that shows how the miners helped themselves to cope by defying the psychological experts 700 metres above them.
[[[The inconvenient truth is that the 33 miners survived underground not as a result of psychological advice and intervention but by sometimes rebelling against the psychologists who kept a watchful eye on their every move. The real story of the Chilean miners, for anyone who cares to look, is that the interventions of the various wings of the trauma industry often make things worse rather than better, and people are mostly happier and healthier without them.]]]
When they rebelled against having hThe men rebelled against these measures in any way they could. At one stage they delayed taking vaccines that had been sent down until they got something they wanted. And as they regained weight courtesy of the food sent down the umbilical cord, ‘their antagonism to the daily psychology sessions increased’, as one report put it. That is, the healthier they got, the closer they became through their own methods of bonding, the more they looked upon the psycho-sessions as an unnecessary irritation. Their decision to blank the mental-health team was not a result of stupidity, of their lack of a PhD in science – rather it sprung from a belief that they could cope better on their own, without videophone advice from on high. As a psychiatrist at Chile’s Catholic University put it, ‘If there is one group that is not exactly disposed to psychologists, it is miners’.
Indeed, the men instituted their own systems for coping: they had a leader, they set up a prayer room, they lunched together everyday, worked in shifts to clear rubble, and had a daily ‘showing your cards’ session at which they got things off their chests. That’s far healthier than sharing your problems with a faceless stranger who might ground you or deny you television privileges if you say the ‘wrong thing’. In working together rather than relying on external expert advice, the men reminded us of a truth often forgotten in today’s Oprahite age: mucking in, offering solidarity, is a far better guarantor oThe men rebelled against these measures in any way they could. At one stage they delayed taking vaccines that had been sent down until they got something they wanted. And as they regained weight courtesy of the food sent down the umbilical cord, ‘their antagonism to the daily psychology sessions increased’, as one report put it. That is, the healthier they got, the closer they became through their own methods of bonding, the more they looked upon the psycho-sessions as an unnecessary irritation. Their decision to blank the mental-health team was not a result of stupidity, of their lack of a PhD in science – rather it sprung from a belief that they could cope better on their own, without videophone advice from on high. As a psychiatrist at Chile’s Catholic University put it, ‘If there is one group that is not exactly disposed to psychologists, it is miners’.
Indeed, the men instituted their own systems for coping: they had a leader, they set up a prayer room, they lunched together everyday, worked in shifts to clear rubble, and had a daily ‘showing your cards’ session at which they got things off their chests. That’s far healthier than sharing your problems with a faceless stranger who might ground you or deny you television privileges if you say the ‘wrong thing’. In working together rather than relying on external expert advice, the men reminded us of a truth often forgotten in today’s Oprahite age: mucking in, offering solidarity, is a far better guarantor of survival and happiness than being told how you should feel by aloof know-it-alls. f survival and happiness than being told how you should feel by aloof know-it-alls. our-long sessions with therapists, the therapists punished them by withholding treats!
[[[The way the men were treated was like a microcosm of today’s therapy industry. The censoring of letters spoke to the idea that people are psychologically fragile and easily harmed by other people’s words. The deprivation of certain ‘prizes’ if they didn’t speak to the mental-health team revealed the authoritarian dynamic behind today’s therapeutic interventions. The notion that they wouldn’t survive without external expertise highlighted the general view of all of us as needing guidance from the new gods of emotional correctness.]]]
It got so bad that government officials had to step in and stop the “widespread censorship” of the family letters to the miners.
[[[But the thing that really tore the miners and their mental-health betters apart – the thing that ensured ‘the honeymoon was over’, as the lead on-site psychologist put it – was the psychology team’s ‘widespread censorship’ of family letters to the men. Early on, every time a family member wrote a letter it had to be submitted for psychological evaluation first, before being sent down the so-called umbilical cord to the men underground, so that any material judged ‘psychologically inappropriate’ could be removed. There was uproar when the families discovered that there was a backlog of letters waiting to be okayed. One of the miners had asked his wife during a video link-up: ‘Why don’t you write to me anymore?’ In fact she had been writing everyday, but her letters were awaiting ‘psychological approval’. Eventually government officials stepped in and ended the vetting of the letters.]]]
[[[The men rebelled against these measures in any way they could. At one stage they delayed taking vaccines that had been sent down until they got something they wanted. And as they regained weight courtesy of the food sent down the umbilical cord, ‘their antagonism to the daily psychology sessions increased’, as one report put it. That is, the healthier they got, the closer they became through their own methods of bonding, the more they looked upon the psycho-sessions as an unnecessary irritation. Their decision to blank the mental-health team was not a result of stupidity, of their lack of a PhD in science – rather it sprung from a belief that they could cope better on their own, without videophone advice from on high. As a psychiatrist at Chile’s Catholic University put it, ‘If there is one group that is not exactly disposed to psychologists, it is miners’.]]]
[[[Indeed, the men instituted their own systems for coping: they had a leader, they set up a prayer room, they lunched together everyday, worked in shifts to clear rubble, and had a daily ‘showing your cards’ session at which they got things off their chests. That’s far healthier than sharing your problems with a faceless stranger who might ground you or deny you television privileges if you say the ‘wrong thing’. In working together rather than relying on external expert advice, the men reminded us of a truth often forgotten in today’s Oprahite age: mucking in, offering solidarity, is a far better guarantor of survival and happiness than being told how you should feel by aloof know-it-alls. ]]]
Another great article Rand, but I have some nits to pick…
[The miners] had it a lot better than what will happen to astronauts when things go exactly as planned.
Only if we lack the vision to do it right.
The miners had abundant water and, with the run of the entire mine below the cave-in, plenty of room to exercise, dispose of waste and get away from each other for privacy and quiet time.
Restrictive plans don’t have to be the plans we choose. Some limits on ship will have to be suffered (hopefully not the limited plans being developed) but once on mars they could find a natural cavern and have all of the above in spades and that’s just to start out with.
They will presumably have standard-issue astrofood, like that used on the International Space Station (with extra hot sauce to compensate for the effects of weightlessness)
Perhaps like this? thrivefoodstorage.com, but one of the reasons for choosing mars is because growing food there should happen rather quickly.
no shower (sponge baths only)
We will do better once we put our minds to it.
…communications with the rest of humanity will likely be low bandwidth
Not if provided with enough power (am I being naive?)
no video, at least most of the time
Why not? I would expect this to be the most used method for most communication. Text being reserved for more technical communications (Unless bandwidth really is the limitation you suggest.)
a several-minute delay
Well ok, we’re not likely to develop subspace radio anytime soon (although quantum entanglement suggests a possible area of research.)
Astronauts on a deep-space mission will have no such supply source—what they leave with is what they’ll have, and what they’ll be able to have won’t be much.
That does not have to be the case. Give them a spaceship with lots of internal volume because it’s perfectly doable. Then oversupply them, not on the ship, but at the destination. The miners were restricted by the size of the hole, but there is really no limit to what the astronauts could have waiting for them.
It doesn’t have to be all that expensive to do this. The critical need is for a reusable vehicle to go back and forth from the surface of mars to orbit. Sending most supplies to orbit rather than all the way to the surface will save quite a bit of cost. A fuel station on the surface is a critical requirement to do this. Multiple landers should be part of the mission.
However, an oversupply really should be waiting for them on the surface in any case.
If anything, I think this case shows that we underestimate the psychological endurance of people.
Good article Rand.
Rand,
I am surprised that no where in the article did you mention that a NASA psychologist has been working with the ones in Chile to help the miners since August, so the arrow is actually the other way and this was a great application of the research that NASA has been doing in this area.
Actually a far better title would have been “How NASA psychology research helped the Chilean miners survive”. But perhaps that could be your follow-up article 🙂
FYI from a PBS interview with NASA psychologist Albert Holland.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2010/10/the-psychology-of-confinement-an-interview-with-nasa-psychologist-al-holland.html
[[[In August, he went to Chile to advise officials there on how to help the 33 miners trapped underground — a long-term confinement situation not so different from a space flight. Holland spoke to the NewsHour Thursday.]]]
[[[So it was a situation that was made to order for us. We felt very comfortable giving technical advice on that. So we went down on the 30th of August and stayed about a week, and talked to our counterparts down there and gave them advice. And then since that time we’ve been in touch by e-mail. ]]]
[[[They had not yet changed to long-duration thinking — they were moving that way but hadn’t yet completed the turn. So I tried to get the miners, the families and the topside officials thinking in terms of a marathon rather than a sprint. I was telling them about self-regulaiton, how individuals need to regulate their emotions. ]]]
[[[Another major area we talked about were circadian rhythms, and regulating the sleep-wake cycle. When you’re in a dimly lit mine like that, for long periods of time, you can start to do what’s called “free-running.” That’s where your internal clocks tend to get out of synchrony. You can be sleeping at the wrong time and awake at the wrong time, and everyone gets on their own schedule — and it doesn’t do well for team dynamics or community health. ]]]
Really Al Holland and NASA deserve a well done for this part of the rescue mission as well.
Others have already made the point about how NASA helped them — it was one of the main aspects of the story. But they had no help from NASA for the first two and a half weeks. That’s where NASA may get some new data.
Rand,
Again, NASA was on it. But since you clearly didn’t read the Interview I linked to…
From the Interview.
[[[How does what these miners went through compare to astronauts’ experience?
There are similarities and differences.]]]
[[[The miners had been thrust into the situation; they hadn’t wanted to be there, they hadn’t spent their lives trying to get there. And they didn’t know when they’d be getting to come out. Normally our people know “Ok, your landing date is here, give or take a week or two.” And so they can pace themselves, they can look forward to that time. And it’s much, much easier to bear versus when you don’t know when you’ll be rescued or how long you’ll be down there. ]]]
Which pretty much makes your argument irrelevant…
Thomas,
Let me rebut the assertions that the psychologist you quoted made. It appears, that, in fact, the miners helped themselves more than the psychologists did. Brendan O’Neill has an article in Spiked that shows how the miners helped themselves to cope by defying the psychological experts 700 metres above them.
[[[The inconvenient truth is that the 33 miners survived underground not as a result of psychological advice and intervention but by sometimes rebelling against the psychologists who kept a watchful eye on their every move. The real story of the Chilean miners, for anyone who cares to look, is that the interventions of the various wings of the trauma industry often make things worse rather than better, and people are mostly happier and healthier without them.]]]
When they rebelled against having hThe men rebelled against these measures in any way they could. At one stage they delayed taking vaccines that had been sent down until they got something they wanted. And as they regained weight courtesy of the food sent down the umbilical cord, ‘their antagonism to the daily psychology sessions increased’, as one report put it. That is, the healthier they got, the closer they became through their own methods of bonding, the more they looked upon the psycho-sessions as an unnecessary irritation. Their decision to blank the mental-health team was not a result of stupidity, of their lack of a PhD in science – rather it sprung from a belief that they could cope better on their own, without videophone advice from on high. As a psychiatrist at Chile’s Catholic University put it, ‘If there is one group that is not exactly disposed to psychologists, it is miners’.
Indeed, the men instituted their own systems for coping: they had a leader, they set up a prayer room, they lunched together everyday, worked in shifts to clear rubble, and had a daily ‘showing your cards’ session at which they got things off their chests. That’s far healthier than sharing your problems with a faceless stranger who might ground you or deny you television privileges if you say the ‘wrong thing’. In working together rather than relying on external expert advice, the men reminded us of a truth often forgotten in today’s Oprahite age: mucking in, offering solidarity, is a far better guarantor oThe men rebelled against these measures in any way they could. At one stage they delayed taking vaccines that had been sent down until they got something they wanted. And as they regained weight courtesy of the food sent down the umbilical cord, ‘their antagonism to the daily psychology sessions increased’, as one report put it. That is, the healthier they got, the closer they became through their own methods of bonding, the more they looked upon the psycho-sessions as an unnecessary irritation. Their decision to blank the mental-health team was not a result of stupidity, of their lack of a PhD in science – rather it sprung from a belief that they could cope better on their own, without videophone advice from on high. As a psychiatrist at Chile’s Catholic University put it, ‘If there is one group that is not exactly disposed to psychologists, it is miners’.
Indeed, the men instituted their own systems for coping: they had a leader, they set up a prayer room, they lunched together everyday, worked in shifts to clear rubble, and had a daily ‘showing your cards’ session at which they got things off their chests. That’s far healthier than sharing your problems with a faceless stranger who might ground you or deny you television privileges if you say the ‘wrong thing’. In working together rather than relying on external expert advice, the men reminded us of a truth often forgotten in today’s Oprahite age: mucking in, offering solidarity, is a far better guarantor of survival and happiness than being told how you should feel by aloof know-it-alls. f survival and happiness than being told how you should feel by aloof know-it-alls. our-long sessions with therapists, the therapists punished them by withholding treats!
[[[The way the men were treated was like a microcosm of today’s therapy industry. The censoring of letters spoke to the idea that people are psychologically fragile and easily harmed by other people’s words. The deprivation of certain ‘prizes’ if they didn’t speak to the mental-health team revealed the authoritarian dynamic behind today’s therapeutic interventions. The notion that they wouldn’t survive without external expertise highlighted the general view of all of us as needing guidance from the new gods of emotional correctness.]]]
It got so bad that government officials had to step in and stop the “widespread censorship” of the family letters to the miners.
[[[But the thing that really tore the miners and their mental-health betters apart – the thing that ensured ‘the honeymoon was over’, as the lead on-site psychologist put it – was the psychology team’s ‘widespread censorship’ of family letters to the men. Early on, every time a family member wrote a letter it had to be submitted for psychological evaluation first, before being sent down the so-called umbilical cord to the men underground, so that any material judged ‘psychologically inappropriate’ could be removed. There was uproar when the families discovered that there was a backlog of letters waiting to be okayed. One of the miners had asked his wife during a video link-up: ‘Why don’t you write to me anymore?’ In fact she had been writing everyday, but her letters were awaiting ‘psychological approval’. Eventually government officials stepped in and ended the vetting of the letters.]]]
[[[The men rebelled against these measures in any way they could. At one stage they delayed taking vaccines that had been sent down until they got something they wanted. And as they regained weight courtesy of the food sent down the umbilical cord, ‘their antagonism to the daily psychology sessions increased’, as one report put it. That is, the healthier they got, the closer they became through their own methods of bonding, the more they looked upon the psycho-sessions as an unnecessary irritation. Their decision to blank the mental-health team was not a result of stupidity, of their lack of a PhD in science – rather it sprung from a belief that they could cope better on their own, without videophone advice from on high. As a psychiatrist at Chile’s Catholic University put it, ‘If there is one group that is not exactly disposed to psychologists, it is miners’.]]]
[[[Indeed, the men instituted their own systems for coping: they had a leader, they set up a prayer room, they lunched together everyday, worked in shifts to clear rubble, and had a daily ‘showing your cards’ session at which they got things off their chests. That’s far healthier than sharing your problems with a faceless stranger who might ground you or deny you television privileges if you say the ‘wrong thing’. In working together rather than relying on external expert advice, the men reminded us of a truth often forgotten in today’s Oprahite age: mucking in, offering solidarity, is a far better guarantor of survival and happiness than being told how you should feel by aloof know-it-alls. ]]]
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/9785/