Support for the Ground-Zero-Plus-Two mosque plummets after Obama weighs in. “If he’s for it, I’m a’gin it,” isn’t generally a good basis for policy opinions, but in his case, you can do worse.
30 thoughts on “An Opinion Leader”
Comments are closed.
Support for the Ground-Zero-Plus-Two mosque plummets after Obama weighs in. “If he’s for it, I’m a’gin it,” isn’t generally a good basis for policy opinions, but in his case, you can do worse.
Comments are closed.
“Ground Zero Victory Mosque”
I like it, nice Orwellian ring.
Hopefully, “Outfidels!” Greg Gutfield’s proposed Muslim Gay bar to be built next to the mosque will still go through. I’d like the Muslims to go ahead an build their mosque or community center or whatever it is just to see Outfidels! next to it.
Given this post, and your previous comment about Hamas being in favor of the project, I hope you read this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/opinion/22kristof.html
Here’s the opening:
Taking Bin Laden’s Side
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Is there any doubt about Osama bin Laden’s position on the not-at-ground-zero mosque?
Osama abhors the vision of interfaith harmony that the proposed Islamic center represents. He fears Muslim clerics who can cite the Koran to denounce terrorism.
It’s striking that many American Republicans share with Al Qaeda the view that the West and the Islamic world are caught inevitably in a “clash of civilizations.” Anwar al-Awlaki, the American-born cleric who recruits jihadis from his lair in Yemen, tells the world’s English-speaking Muslims that America is at war against Islam. You can bet that Mr. Awlaki will use the opposition to the community center and mosque to try to recruit more terrorists.
In short, the proposed community center is not just an issue on which Sarah Palin and Osama bin Laden agree. It is also one in which opponents of the center are playing into the hands of Al Qaeda.
To be fair, I think they would reconsider should pole-dancers ever destroy an office tower.
There is no more homogeneity of thought among pole-dancers than there is among Muslims — after all, happily married suburban moms take pole-dancing classes….
Still, if the pole-dancers destroyed the tower in the name of pole dancing, it would arouse some concern. And then, of course, those concerned would be accused of being pole-dancerphobic.
“There is no more homogeneity of thought among pole-dancers than there is among Muslims.”
Really? My impression is that pole-dancers come from a variety of beliefs, including atheism; whereas even a lax Muslim has to subscribe to the same superstitions as the die-hards.
Bilwick, why do Sunnis and Shiites fight? Why is Islam as practiced in Senegal so different from the way Islam is practiced in Indonesia? Why is Islam in either of these countries so different from the each of the ways it is practiced in Iraq? (Bonus geeky question: why did Kim Stanley Robinson make Sufis seem cool in his Mars trilogy?)
So you’re saying, Bob-1, that there is no basic core beliefs to Islam?
I mean “there are no basic core beliefs,” of course.
Sure, there are core beliefs like the Golden Rule, which are shared by Muslims, Christians, Jews, and nearly everyone else as well. And there is basic monotheism, but what that means differs not just across sects, but within a single congregation or even a single family. As for sect-wide beliefs: there are a variety of so-called “core beliefs” held by different adherents which, in practice, conflict with each other. Just like Christianity. And the overwhelming majority of Muslims, just like most Christians and most Jews, are largely indifferent and just get on with day to day life.
“the Golden Rule, which are shared by Muslims” That statement is factually untrue. If you are not a muslim you can convert or pay the jizya according to islam.
the overwhelming majority of Muslims, just like most Christians and most Jews, are largely indifferent and just get on with day to day life.
They’re not the problem, well… except to the extent they financial and morally support those that do fight. Humans are first of all humans. Any of us could be evil by adopting evil principles, then acting on them. Nobody is saying all muslims are the problem except those that want a strawman to knock down.
why do Sunnis and Shiites fight?
Because they don’t know how to peacefully disagree. Not because of the false implication that they don’t both want death to the infidel.
Nobody says a person can’t build on private property, but if you’re building something in the name a harmony you don’t do it by pissing on the graves of loved ones.
“Sure, there are core beliefs like the Golden Rule, which are shared by Muslims, Christians, Jews, and nearly everyone else as well.”
BZZZZZZT! Wrong answer, Bob. Why don’t you start with the Give Pillars of Islam and work from there.
That should be “Five”, Not “Give”.
Bob-1: But there are, then, some core beliefs shared by Muslims of all varieties, correct? Beliefs that distinguish them from Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, etc., agreed? Again, I don’t think you will find even this minimal homogeneity of belief among pole-dancers. However, my thesis needs to be tested, so I’m off to do some field research at the nearest Temple of Pole.
Regardless, Rand’s point remains valid: No pole-dancers, as of this date, have hijacked airplanes and/or flown them into skyscrapers. Or for that matter hanged Gays or slain “infidels” in the name of pole-dancing.
He fears Muslim clerics who can cite the Koran to denounce terrorism.
Yeah that’s keeping him up at night. We’ve seen a steady increase in that phenomena over the last 9 years.
You can bet that Mr. Awlaki will use the opposition to the community center and mosque to try to recruit more terrorists.
But if everyone would just shut up, he’ll be left to sputter and spit. “My recruiting has dried up! Those Amercans have foiled me.”
Good lord what absolute garbage.
You can bet that Mr. Awlaki will use the opposition to the community center and mosque to try to recruit more terrorists.
When our very existence is an affront to Islam, do you honestly believe that if the mosque is built that Mr. Awlaki will simply fold up shop and go home because he’ll lack reasons to recruit terrorists?
Yea, but just think of all those violent Love Bombs that pole dancers have been responsible for over the years.
Have any of you ever READ the Koran? Or “Parliament of the Birds?” Or any other Islamic texts? Go study before you comment. And for the record, the Ground Zero mosque is Very Bad for America.
Build the mosque and someone out there will use it and say “Look at the weak infidels who can not stop us!”
Don’t let the mosque be built and someone will use it and say “See how they drop their own rules when they don’t like the outcome? The infidels are weak.
I say support the mosque, then blow it up the day before it opens. Maybe a remotely piloted 737 for perfect symmetry. Have a press conference and say “this is terrible, but hey, its a tough neighborhood and these things happen.”
Be kind to John Wolf I think this is his first visit here.
Moving on — I asked this on Twitter, now I ask it here: what on earth does New York City need with a “community center” anyway? “Oh those poor New Yorkers, huddled in their apartments with no place to go. Let’s build them a community center!” Then again, I think “community centers” are pretty useless. Communities need stores, libraries, churches, court houses, and the like, not useless “community centers” that no one will use and will end up deserted and smelling like hobo urine.
Have any of you ever READ the Koran? Or “Parliament of the Birds?” Not to be confused with Chaucer’s poem.
Anybody can preach peace and love (that’s what you were getting at right?) But it is actions that matter, by their fruits you will know them.
Dig a little deeper and you will find that peace comes after all the infidels are killed and love is for the brotherhood (woman are chattel.)
Sufism is mysticism which is just how you get people to believe other crap (like 72 virgins await.)
Denying this Mosque is just handing victory to the 9/11 terrorists who’s goal was to start a war between the Islamic religion and the West.
Osama is probably smiling from ear to ear as he watches the opponents of the Mosque arguing that the U.S. should renounce its tradition of religious tolerance. All the opponents of the Mosque are doing is making Americans look like a bunch of hypocrites, arguing for religious tolerance in other countries while not accepting it in the U.S.
As a side note. If I was the Mayor of New York I would really show Osama and the other terrorists what freedom means by inviting this mosque to put their community center in the Freedom Tower when its built. What better way to illustrate to the world, especially the Islamic nations, what America is all about?
Bob-1;
Its nice to know there are still a few folks on this post that understand what makes America different from the rest of the world. I agree 100% that Palin is taking Osama’s side on the mosque, and repudiating (to use her new word) 390 years of American heritage and tradition.
@Thomas, why stop there? Surely a minaret atop the Freedom Tower with a call-to-prayer loud enough for Obama to admire from the
West Wing18th hole would show the Islamic world even more what “America is all about”.Titus,
Here is something to read, and think about.
http://www.wwnorton.com/college/history/ralph/workbook/ralprs36b.htm
These were the national goals that led America to success in World War II and the generation following it. Perhaps its time the various ideologues start thinking again how to make them national goals again, and how to use them pull the nation together again instead of looking for issues to split it.
Thomas, you’re going to have to wait until after the regeneracy event for propaganda like that to be effective. By that I mean the next Pearl Harbor, unfortunately. We’re still in the unraveling phase, the phase where Obama’s generation (both here and abroad) screws everything up.
This is something to read and think about.
Titus,
I have reviewed it. Its an interesting attempt at merging the K-Cycle with the work of Strauss and Howe. but his “Principle of Localization and Merging Timelines” is too casual at dismissing the restrictions that Strauss and Howe place on their Generations Theory.
Also he appears to have no knowledge of the key work of Angus Maddison in this area. Based on what John J. Xenakis is attempting in his book an understanding of Angus Maddison work, “The World Economy: Historical Statistics” would be critical to his analysis, as critical as the work of Strauss and Howe, especially as he is attempting to expand the work of Strauss and Howe in a general theory of history. He also doesn’t appear to be aware of the key work of David Hackett Fischer, “The Great Wave: Price Revolutions and the Rhythm of History” which broadly predicted the great recession and showed it would be different then a normal recession over ten years ago, based on historical cycles of pricing.
As a side note, Roosevelt’s speech was at the end of the last unraveling phase as identified by Strauss and Howe and less then a year before Pearl Harbor.