Lost the Ship again, this time about 30 seconds from shutdown. Velocity was just over 20,000 kph. The 3 sea level engines, the gimbaled ones, shut down causing Ship to lose control and start tumbling.
The booster was caught. There were 2 engines out on boost back and maybe one at landing burn. Catch might not have been fully nominal.
So… Bets on where this one comes down? I thought I heard them say they’d safe’d the LTS over the net, listening carefully while trying to ignore the commentators. Better to come down in one piece at this altitude, likely over the Indian Ocean?
I expect you’re right. If they safed the LTS & less than 30s from end of burn then it will likely only be a couple hundred miles short of the LZ. Hopefully it can be tracked.
NSF is saying after it went into a spin it broke apart while re-entering the atmosphere in the debris zone:
Ship 34 suffered a leak near the center engines, and a Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly of one of the Raptor Vacuum engines which then led to the loss of all three center engines. This led to off-centered thrust, which led to a tumbling ship, which then reentered and broke apart on reentry. This debris field caused multiple aircraft to divert and move away from the debris area.
The images I’ve seen of the Ship fuel lines look kind of long and thin. The diameter is set by the required flow rate and pressure, but perhaps where it divides into multiple pipes for the six engines is not strong enough.
Are you suggesting the problems with Starship V2 are manifold?
Sorry, couldn’t help myself….
I noticed when it went into its spin, that the LOX and LCH4 values kept going up and down, I assume due to sloshing up against the level sensors. It was interesting that we got more video during the spin, I don’t believe we did for launch 7, I don’t remember seeing any.
I noticed when it went into its spin, that the LOX and LCH4 values kept going up and down, I assume due to sloshing up against the level sensors.
I noticed this too and agree with your assumptions on this one.
My thoughts, too. The anomaly taking place at nearly the same point speaks to a problem as you describe: A long, exposed downflow pipe with a decreasing amount of fluid supporting it.
They may want to either put dimples in the downflow pipes, or switch back to the One Big Downcomer they had in V 1.0…
Well I thought I’d give Grok-3 an opportunity to speculate. Here’s what it came up with.
If it remains vibrational harmonics due to changing tank mass, I’m wondering if the feed-lines are acting like guitar strings and working themselves loose at the joints?
Return to one down-comer and a better/bigger manifold? A propellant delivery system re-design on this scale I suspect will induce a >1 month delay. I suppose they could place passive mass around them to damp vibrations. But why wouldn’t they have done that after IFT-7? More mass or more closely spaced blobs?
No surprise, this has engendered a second active mishap investigation. Since the one for IFT-7 was never closed we now have two active investigations on-going by the FAA on Starship.
Rats! That’s looking *identical* to IFT-7. Booster looks like a well-developed vehicle at this point. Starship Block 2 obviously has some issues.
Lost the Ship again, this time about 30 seconds from shutdown. Velocity was just over 20,000 kph. The 3 sea level engines, the gimbaled ones, shut down causing Ship to lose control and start tumbling.
The booster was caught. There were 2 engines out on boost back and maybe one at landing burn. Catch might not have been fully nominal.
So… Bets on where this one comes down? I thought I heard them say they’d safe’d the LTS over the net, listening carefully while trying to ignore the commentators. Better to come down in one piece at this altitude, likely over the Indian Ocean?
I expect you’re right. If they safed the LTS & less than 30s from end of burn then it will likely only be a couple hundred miles short of the LZ. Hopefully it can be tracked.
Got some video over the Dominican Republic suggesting another RUD.
There’s a comment on there that the video was actually of Ship 7.
NSF is saying after it went into a spin it broke apart while re-entering the atmosphere in the debris zone:
Ship 34 suffered a leak near the center engines, and a Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly of one of the Raptor Vacuum engines which then led to the loss of all three center engines. This led to off-centered thrust, which led to a tumbling ship, which then reentered and broke apart on reentry. This debris field caused multiple aircraft to divert and move away from the debris area.
Thanks for the update.
I stole your quote and gave it to someone on X.
There’s a comment on there that the video was actually of Ship 7.
Noted, thanks.
I don’t think their fuel line leakages, engine pressurization issues are strictly related to vibrational harmonics.
There’s something going on with V2 Starship propellant transfer that needs some rethink.
Once again Scott Manley has the receipts.
Wonder if it’s hitting some kind of resonance node when the tanks reach a certain level of depletion and no longer dampening the vibrations?
The images I’ve seen of the Ship fuel lines look kind of long and thin. The diameter is set by the required flow rate and pressure, but perhaps where it divides into multiple pipes for the six engines is not strong enough.
Are you suggesting the problems with Starship V2 are manifold?
Sorry, couldn’t help myself….
I noticed when it went into its spin, that the LOX and LCH4 values kept going up and down, I assume due to sloshing up against the level sensors. It was interesting that we got more video during the spin, I don’t believe we did for launch 7, I don’t remember seeing any.
I noticed when it went into its spin, that the LOX and LCH4 values kept going up and down, I assume due to sloshing up against the level sensors.
I noticed this too and agree with your assumptions on this one.
My thoughts, too. The anomaly taking place at nearly the same point speaks to a problem as you describe: A long, exposed downflow pipe with a decreasing amount of fluid supporting it.
They may want to either put dimples in the downflow pipes, or switch back to the One Big Downcomer they had in V 1.0…
Well I thought I’d give Grok-3 an opportunity to speculate. Here’s what it came up with.
If it remains vibrational harmonics due to changing tank mass, I’m wondering if the feed-lines are acting like guitar strings and working themselves loose at the joints?
Return to one down-comer and a better/bigger manifold? A propellant delivery system re-design on this scale I suspect will induce a >1 month delay. I suppose they could place passive mass around them to damp vibrations. But why wouldn’t they have done that after IFT-7? More mass or more closely spaced blobs?
I wonder if the fact that the length of Starship was extended by 2 meters has anything to do with this.
No surprise, this has engendered a second active mishap investigation. Since the one for IFT-7 was never closed we now have two active investigations on-going by the FAA on Starship.