14 thoughts on “Mars”

1. We’re going to Mars, and taking the Stars and Stripes.

   This piece makes the common mistake of assuming something that has yet to be demonstrated. We simply don’t know whether or not Mars is a place where humans can live and thrive. All the analogies to the new world or American west don’t have any bearing on the question.

   1. Well, that’s true for settling there. It doesn’t prevent flag planting.

      But I agree that Elon is far too complacent about our ability to reproduce there.

      1. It’s one thing to be able to reproduce on Mars. It’s quite another to establish and maintain stable demographics in a Martian city. Demographic declines on earth occur with industrialization and migration into cities, with constrained living space for families. I would expect those constraints to be permanent on Mars.

         1. Quite so. However English colonists did quite well in 1600’s New England, living in close quarters settlements either inside or right next door to fortifications. Of course there were summers spent chopping enormous amounts of wood (I’m still amazed at how big a wood pile 3 chords of wood are) and that’s practically nothing (for anything more than a single family). Praying that the vegetable crop planted would grow and not get wiped out by a hail storm in late summer. And to some extent hunting game, but that was not a sustainable activity until animal husbandry was boot-strapped with grain surpluses.

            It’s not the kind of life we’re used to. But for Martians, well it’ll be a different story. The biggest unresolved is if human biology can cope with reduced g. My speculation is that over several generations we’ll see hybridized Martians that can do well on Mars, not so well on Earth.

            Mars will need energy and lots of it. Small modular nuclear reactors bored into the Martian soil we be de rigueur. History has shown that an environmentally stressed population by necessity is forced to develop the most advanced technology. Martian technology after a century of development will be the envy of Earth.

            Of course if humans on Mars die off from some heretofore unknown physical malady, well, there’s still the bragging rights of flags and footprints.

   2. This piece makes the common mistake of assuming something that has yet to be demonstrated.

      Humans thriving has been demonstrated on Earth. Mars is in the same reality as Earth is.

      Don’t make the mistake of using language of impossibility to describe hard problems.

      1. Humans thriving has been demonstrated on Earth. Mars is in the same reality as Earth is.

         There are some places on Earth where humans can live and thrive. There are some places on Earth where they cannot. I think Mars has more in common with the latter than the former but we’ll see.

         Don’t make the mistake of using language of impossibility to describe hard problems.

         I’m not doing that. I’m merely pointing out that fervently desiring Mars to be a frontier doesn’t make it one. Pretending that the solutions to hard problems are in immediate prospect is not helpful.

         1. There are some places on Earth where humans can live and thrive. There are some places on Earth where they cannot.

            Greenland?

            1. I’m guessing he’s thinking something like 2 miles deep in an ocean or inside of a volcano or something silly like that. But yeah we could live and thrive pretty much anywhere at this point.

            2. Greenland?

               Canada. It has roughly the same area as the US but only a tenth the population, mostly clustered near the US border.

               If most of Canada is uninhabitable the prospects for settling the moon or Mars don’t look promising.

               It’ll be interesting to see how Musk is going to deal with this issue.

            3. unpopulated ≠ uninhabitable

      2. The Canadians have made a big mess of the habiltable areas. They are no standard that future Mars colonists should be compared to.

2. Quite exciting and after the festivities of the past few days, we have to wonder when Zuckerberg is going to start his rocket company, or maybe he will do the sensible thing and focus on something for them to launch

3. After the initial base/mining camp era, there’s no reason Martian settlement should be centralized. Thinking that it is, is essentially “old space” thinking. It’s like saying everyone in Canada should live in a giant arcology. In the past, here, I’ve discussed how I could duplicate my current lifestyle but on Mars with a few million dollars’ worth of off the shelf hardware. Shipping it to Mars would be the big expense, since it would require one entire Starship load.

   Reproduction (for people much younger than me!) is an unknown, but we won’t find out until we try, now, will we?

   1. For a few million, you could have a lake house, a boat, and a lifestyle to attract fit women to come hang out. The appeal to moving to Mars is niche but once people already live there, what is the lifestyle that would attract Martian women? Life on the worm farm?

      I’m not an occupational supremacist, that could be a great line of work to be in. Martian women might have a greater respect for occupations that make civilization possible.

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