15 thoughts on “Starliner”

1. There was an interesting teleconference held today at 1p ET. My comments on it were attached to this older thread.

   1. Suppose Starliner lands successfully without a crew. If NASA decides to flag this as a successful mission, as they hinted they might, then does Boeing get paid as a means to keep Starliner alive for yet another mission?

      And what does that mean for the next Starliner mission? That it is operational?

2. To try to answer Rand’s question… I don’t see it as viable for some other entity to take over Starliner, due to having a seriously flawed product, plus a very limited potential market (6 missions). So, my hunch is “no”.

   And as for Starliner now… I still want to know what, exactly, caused the water sublimater to use so much water that refilling at ISS was needed.
   I also want to know if the White Sands testing included capsule thrusters, or just the service module thrusters. (The capsule thrusters were not part of the docked test that recently occurred)

   1. There is certainly no case for any other entity to take on Starliner merely to complete the ISS crew missions. Any entity looking to adopt – and fix – Starliner would be doing so only on the basis that getting the hardware at a fire sale price might allow some money to be made from crew missions to other space stations that will come on-line after ISS is gone or just before.

3. Also noticeably absent at today’s telecom, ANY representative from Boeing.

4. I’m not sure who that entity could even be – it would have to be someone with the money to buy the program off Boeing, and invest the money needed to fix its shortcomings, and be able to sustain those up front costs until the day arrives when it could actually start generating revenue with it. The only entity I can see that could fit the bill is Jeff Bezos’s Blue Origin.

   1. You’re almost certainly right. Still, Tom Mueller is a long-time sporty-car racer and his current company is already making and selling thrusters. The idea of Tom and his folks stripping down and rebuilding Starliner in a back room with their own after-market parts has a strong appeal.

      1. I have absolutely zero doubt that Tom and his team could design much better thruster doghouses than Boeing did, and make them operate better, too!

         I think their big constraint is just their lack of resources. They have a market cap of $270M, max, and about 130 employees.

         1. I know. But just the thought made me smile. And maybe a few other people too.

5. For another company to take it over, Boeing would have to pay them.

6. An article this week in AvWeek, looking at the challenges facing the new Boeing CEO Kelly Ortberg, speculated that Boeing might look at restructuring as a commercial aircraft company and spinning off or outright selling the defense and space unit. I think that’s far fetched, but not impossible.

   If that happens, I can’t imagine anyone would want Starliner or the SLS rocket (I suspect LockMart would be happy to take a “termination for convenience” fee for Orion), but there would likely be a bidding war for the Boeing satellite business.

7. Boeing designed the Starliner capsule for reuse, although it needs a new heat shield and IIRC, new parachutes for each flight. It may also need new airbags. However, it also needs a new service module. Their service module design includes over 30 thrusters, many propellant tanks, and a lot of propellant lines and associated valves. It probably has batteries and other equipment as well. If some other company took over Starliner, they’d either have to buy all of those things from Boeing (probably not fixed price) or produce that stuff on their own. I just don’t see that happening, especially given all of the problems with the system.

8. ESA should buy Starliner (or the US should make Boeing give it to them). It could use the ATV-derived service module, which is known to work in space and is a better fit for Starliner than Orion. For LEO, it doesn’t need the AJ-10 either.

   1. …and give Ariane 6 something to launch?

      1. That’s pretty much what I had in mind. 64 has plenty of capacity. Suggested upgrades? Add a tractor LES for those “towering inferno” pad aborts. Resume 7 seats (hardware is present). The ATV service module has a through tunnel, currently serving as the AJ-10 socket. Make it a pressurized tunnel with a heat shield hatch and an IDS on the bottom. See if there are spare parts for more capsules. Hire Thales to build a European space station.

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