Business, Economics, Media Criticism, Political Commentary, Social Commentary, Space, Technology and Society

We Demand A Collectivist Space Program

36 Comments

An ignorant rant against the “billionaire space race.”

[Update a while later]

As would be expected, Alan Boyle has a more intelligent take on the “race.”

36 thoughts on “We Demand A Collectivist Space Program”

  1. Speaking of unearned income. Where do I send the bill to The New Republic for the 5 minutes of my time spent reading this article?

    1. I’ll write my Blue Congresswoman. Maybe we can pass an unearned magazine article tax.

  2. Isn’t Boyle a bit of a commie himself? Where does he draw the line and is he prepared for the line to cross him considering his place on the progressive stack? Its like a game of communists vs socialists vs progressives.

    A good critique of Bezos and Branson is that they are just lighting their money on fire rather than doing anything meaningful with it but maybe I just underestimate their potential market and do have to admit that BO might do something productive with an unrelated product line sometime in the next decade. So, my problem is similar to TNR but I don’t really care what B&B do other than to criticize it. I don’t think we need to steal their money and put it toward my personal agenda but it certainly is tempting.

    I think I’m starting to see the appeal of leftism.

  3. I think I’m starting to see the appeal of leftism.

    “Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people’s money.” – M. Thatcher 2/5/76

    1. Hey, but they will run out of other people’s money by turning it into my money. I’m going to be one of the ones at the top of the party power structure right?

      1. Socialism as a Ponzi Scam? With apparatchiks being the “winners” and everyone else are the “dupes”.

      2. I’m going to be one of the ones at the top of the party power structure right?
        Not only that but you’ll be first in line to take your place alongside the concrete block wall come the revolution!

        #FirstInFront

        1. Well…almost

          At the top are the Central Committee Members
          Then the Inner Party
          Then the Outer Party
          then the proles

          1. Well…almost
            At the top are the Central Committee Members
            …

            Well… Foremost: there are different interpretations of what being alongside the concrete block wall means…. Whether standing with or without a blindfold or laying prone, for example.

            But your priority order is pretty much as given….

  4. Does the article explain how a government run space program drives down costs for everyone? Because when billionaires compete like this, the result is lower costs for the things they are doing. After all, when you make more of something, it becomes more common and less scarce. It seems just this summer we will launch more average citizens into space than any period every before. NASA launched what? One teacher.

    1. NASA launched what? One teacher.
      Well technically, two teachers, one to orbit.
      And a bunch of payload specialists, the first American to orbit the Earth, twice, and the first NASA Administrator to orbit the Earth.

    2. NASA could have done a lot of things but were limited by their own institutional prerogatives and by congress. Cost didn’t really matter as the expenditure was ideological. The billionaires might bring costs down but along with that comes people deciding what space based activities they want to engage in. Freedom of choice here is just as important as cost and it took NASA and the government to give up some control to allow this to happen.

      Things could change but hopefully we have some people in government who comprehend where strength comes from.

      1. NASA did a bit more in funding technologies. Government plays a great role in doing high risk things that individuals, even billionaires, can’t afford. Space may still seem very high risk, but it isn’t the same level of risk as 100 years ago.

        Still, that model of development needs to make way for other development. People often confuse the good government can do as meaning only government should do it. There is a vice versa; that only commercial can be better, yet commercial is risk averse too. The fact remains, these billionaires have driven down cost and while they want a seat at the table that they paid for; they are inviting others to the table as well.

        1. ‘Did’ being the significant digit. What has NASA done since before the shuttle (NASA’s first systemic failure) achieved? And that was 40 years and more ago

      2. Yes, Musk seems to have NASA and the USAF in his corner at least.

        As for the “New Republic” article. I couldn’t read the whole thing straight through. I could barely skim it due to my rising gorge.

  5. If you’re in the category of these three, you can buy a ridiculously expensive house or three like Gates and the whole production run of some super car and then what do you do after lunch. We won’t let them do weapons development or recruit a private army, so space is the next best thing for soaking up a lot of money.

    Bezos got it right when he hired all the old space talent. Musk’s amateurs screwed it up so badly, he’ll end up making money. Branson has to count as a good try so far, a few more delays and he’ll rank with Bezos.

  6. The author seems to think that if they weren’t spending their money on this stuff, they’d be doing something “useful” with it. My guess is if they weren’t doing this stuff they’d be wasting it on cruise ship sized yachts and European super models.

    And yeah, the author seems to think making a profit is kind of icky. I’m guessing his writing is just a hobby.

    1. Or ten thousand dollar bottles of wine and kilos of pure peruvian flake…

      Pay no attention to TNR or any other ‘social’ site that cannot allow comments for their lunacy.

  7. I like the competition. I’m not entirely convinced that the sniping at each other is genuine. But I don’t really know.

    I don’t care if either Blue Origin or Virgin Galactic succeed – or fail. Just the fact that people are DOING things is enough for me.

    I like the fact that development of space vehicles has gotten cheap enough to become a rich person’s game. Or maybe it’s that rich people got rich enough to play the gamer. Haven’t checked that out but either way I don’t care.

    I notice that like all commies Silverman thinks that people should be told what to do with their money.

    I just wish someone would to that to people like Silverman. Compared to the poorest of the poor in India or Mexico and elsewhere, Silverman is fabulously rich.

    Someone should start to demand Silverman stop spending his money on frivolities.

    1. I notice that like all commies Silverman thinks that people should be told what to do with their money.

      Like all commies, Silverman thinks that he should be the one telling people what to do with their money.

      And most of the people who think they should tell other people what do to with their money usually can’t run their own lives without taking their cut of other people’s money.

      Compared to the poorest of the poor in India or Mexico and elsewhere, Silverman is fabulously rich.

      If he weren’t taking other people’s money, he’d be as rich as those Guatemalan peasants he wants to import. Pretend aristocrats need an inferior class to lord over.

    2. “I’m not entirely convinced that the sniping at each other is genuine. But I don’t really know.”

      They dress and act in other venues like bitchy little girls, so it is probably genuine.

      Sorry ladies but if you think back to your grade school days, I’m sure you know what I’m talking about.

  8. Branson and Bezos epitomize the old saw about how to make a small fortune in space (“start out with a large fortune”). Musk started out with a small fortune and blew up the log jam. The real shame for these so-called journalists and commentators is the way they try to smear Musk by comparing him with Branson and Bezos. Line the three of them up and you can see the difference: it’s two assholes and an aspie.

    1. Musk is the only one with a working human space (as in orbital) flight capability. The other two are just doing stunt flights. Such things are meaningless for the long term goal of getting humanity off planet. Near term though, they might generate enough interest (and money) for people to start taking this stuff seriously.

      2. Bezos said Branson doesn’t count because he doesn’t go up high enough. Yes, Bezos said that.

  9. I posted this at a different site some years ago; would love to hear some of your opinions about:

    “Elon Musk said elsewhere that he thinks that 500K a ticket is the price for being able to send people to Mars privately at a profit. He said that he thinks that there are at least 8000 and probably very many more willing/able to pay. Let assume he is right. How would the colony make money? How about: The Cayman Islands in space?. Mars has one big thing to trade upon, its location beyond all claims of any government as to sovereignty. Meaning it does not have to follow any earth laws. The colony bank of mars (probably a bunch of server/routers/cpu’s in a room) could offer clients tax free interest on deposits (say 5% more for big investors) and total confidentiality. Records not available to any gov agency wanting to know anything about, no legal obligation to do so.”

    1. A Mars bank, or some similar location, could mint their own currency backed by a portfolio of precious metals stored safely off world.

      1. “A Mars bank, or some similar location, could mint their own currency backed by a portfolio of precious metals stored safely off world.”

        Yes eventually; but they would start off with deposits sent to them from earth-side folks eager to make tax free interest. After Asteroid mining takes off, you are likely right. Even if the bank of mars only pays for instance 1600/oz for gold or platinum deposited in said bank of mars, it pays you tax free income. If earth pays 2000/oz your net is likely about 50% after taxes so effectively 1000/oz. Any any interest earned in said earth-side bank would also be taxed.

      2. And as you suggested, a gold/precious metals backed currency “Mars dollars” would be an excellent hedge against inflation. Especially compared against massive earth side deficit spending. The relative gain in value compared to say the US dollar would be like a hidden extra “interest payment”.

  10. Cayman Islands in space?. Mars has one big thing to trade upon, its location beyond all claims of any government as to sovereignty. Meaning it does not have to follow any earth laws.

    This seems a bit optimistic. Until a very long time into the future, Earth could easily starve an errant colony on Mars and thus force compliance with whatever the powers that be on Earth wish.

  11. “This seems a bit optimistic. Until a very long time into the future, Earth could easily starve an errant colony on Mars and thus force compliance with whatever the powers that be on Earth wish.”

    Perhaps. But their is no “earth” collective government. One country might agree not to sell to the mars colony (USA) other countries might not agree. As long as the 1967 outer space treaty remains in force no country can claim sovereignty over Mars (or any other heavenly body). The money deposited in the “bank of mars” like any bank would be invested back on earth in a variety of places. Generating income for the colonists (and interest for the depositors) that’s how the colony would pay for its imports.

  12. “Mars has one big thing to trade upon, its location beyond all claims of any government as to sovereignty. ”

    Travis J.L Corcoran came to that conclusion in the Aristillus novels. To get away from the Blue Meanies you need to go a long way. The Moon isn’t far enough as our heroes find out. Loved the hat tip to James Blish “Cities in Flight”.

  13. “To get away from the Blue Meanies you need to go a long way. The Moon isn’t far enough as our heroes find out.”

    Yes. Mars is 6 months to a year away with current technology and the Hohman transfer orbit launch window opens up about every 26 months. Versus 2-4 days travel pretty much anytime to get to the Moon; even if the moon is technically “independent” to easy for earth guv’s forces to get there. Extradition treaties between countries are a comparatively modern invention. Back in the day lots of money/gold/etc. was held in the bank of NY (or similiar) facility to evade the tax man in Europe. Or yourself if there were warrants against you in said countries; many expats took advantage of that. Imagine a future version of Bernie Maddoff hiding money in the bank of mars to avoid paying taxes back on earth, to say nothing of avoiding jail by immigrating to Mars where there are no extradtion treaties. In no time at all trillions of dollars electronically transferred off-planet to avoid taxes.

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