Starship construction is kinda giving me NGLLC vibes.
OK I’ll bite. What is NGLLC?
The Northrop Grumman Lunar Lander Challenge. Armadillo Aerospace and Masten Space Systems were the main competitors with a very honorable mention to Paul Breed (and his son also Paul) who built their lander in their garage. They were small entrepreneurial teams using unconventional methods and materials (I think Ben Brockert of Masten said one of their valves used the motor out of a refrigerator ice dispenser) . Rapid design-build-test iteration.
Oh yeah, I vaguely remember that!
I miss Armadillo and their “tethered stick” test crane!
Hmm.
That outside of rocket, looks sort of like how I would have built a pipe launcher.
But I would run pieces vertically, and probably longer pieces. And use marine aluminum- because heat is not an issue.
And in drydock- and much longer {but could be made sections that tall}
Heat is an issue; it’s intended to survive re-entry.
I heard Spacex uses additive manufacturing to build engines. Is this process scalable to build the whole starship and super-heavy in one piece, with no seams? Just looking at seams and stringers, that could reduce hull mass by 5 to 10%.
They are using additive manufacturing. They add a plate, and then they add another plate, and another plate on top of that. That’s far more efficient than machining the rocket out of a solid block of stainless steel. ^_^
George, you ham!
…sandwich…
Relativity seems to think so, that’s their gimmick. Frankly I don’t understand how 3D printing tanks makes any sense. But I’m kind of a piece of shit moron.
It’s a tankless job…
It’s just another case of a riveting story…
That’s so nuts, I’m going to bolt.
Quite a fastenating story.
For something like a skin or tank, a nice uniform rolled metal is hard to beat. In volume production, I would suggest they see if a supplier can upgrade their facilities to roll much larger sheets of stainless. The ideal is probably a 30′ diameter piece of seamless tube.
They could probably save weight by welding an isogrid structure instead of stringers and frames, but it would still be a lot of welding. Aluminum isogrid is usually machined, at great expense, but aluminum is much harder to weld than steel. I’ve welded mild steel isogrid (T sections and pipe stubs welded to plate) just for fun and it is pretty darn easy. But it would be a whole lot more welding (there are a lot of surfaces), perhaps going against the vehicle’s simple and cheap philosophy to get added stiffness that isn’t apparently required.
Ugh, machining that much stainless isogrid might be worse than welding aluminum-lithium alloy. Maybe it could be patterned as part of the sheet rolling process? I’m not sure what the limits are for cold rolling relief features. Or maybe use external weld-on stringers that double as heat shield mounts.
Seamless tubing is made either by extruding, drawing or drilling. Probably not possible anywhere near 30′. Anything 30′ would have to be transported by sea.
Most flat sheets and plates are limited to either 8′ or 12′ wide. This is the limit of the width of the roll stands that form it. These are understandably massive in order to hold deflection within spec. Steel mills are designed around them.
Starship construction is kinda giving me NGLLC vibes.
OK I’ll bite. What is NGLLC?
The Northrop Grumman Lunar Lander Challenge. Armadillo Aerospace and Masten Space Systems were the main competitors with a very honorable mention to Paul Breed (and his son also Paul) who built their lander in their garage. They were small entrepreneurial teams using unconventional methods and materials (I think Ben Brockert of Masten said one of their valves used the motor out of a refrigerator ice dispenser) . Rapid design-build-test iteration.
Oh yeah, I vaguely remember that!
I miss Armadillo and their “tethered stick” test crane!
Hmm.
That outside of rocket, looks sort of like how I would have built a pipe launcher.
But I would run pieces vertically, and probably longer pieces. And use marine aluminum- because heat is not an issue.
And in drydock- and much longer {but could be made sections that tall}
Heat is an issue; it’s intended to survive re-entry.
I heard Spacex uses additive manufacturing to build engines. Is this process scalable to build the whole starship and super-heavy in one piece, with no seams? Just looking at seams and stringers, that could reduce hull mass by 5 to 10%.
They are using additive manufacturing. They add a plate, and then they add another plate, and another plate on top of that. That’s far more efficient than machining the rocket out of a solid block of stainless steel. ^_^
George, you ham!
…sandwich…
Relativity seems to think so, that’s their gimmick. Frankly I don’t understand how 3D printing tanks makes any sense. But I’m kind of a piece of shit moron.
It’s a tankless job…
It’s just another case of a riveting story…
That’s so nuts, I’m going to bolt.
Quite a fastenating story.
For something like a skin or tank, a nice uniform rolled metal is hard to beat. In volume production, I would suggest they see if a supplier can upgrade their facilities to roll much larger sheets of stainless. The ideal is probably a 30′ diameter piece of seamless tube.
They could probably save weight by welding an isogrid structure instead of stringers and frames, but it would still be a lot of welding. Aluminum isogrid is usually machined, at great expense, but aluminum is much harder to weld than steel. I’ve welded mild steel isogrid (T sections and pipe stubs welded to plate) just for fun and it is pretty darn easy. But it would be a whole lot more welding (there are a lot of surfaces), perhaps going against the vehicle’s simple and cheap philosophy to get added stiffness that isn’t apparently required.
Ugh, machining that much stainless isogrid might be worse than welding aluminum-lithium alloy. Maybe it could be patterned as part of the sheet rolling process? I’m not sure what the limits are for cold rolling relief features. Or maybe use external weld-on stringers that double as heat shield mounts.
Seamless tubing is made either by extruding, drawing or drilling. Probably not possible anywhere near 30′. Anything 30′ would have to be transported by sea.
Most flat sheets and plates are limited to either 8′ or 12′ wide. This is the limit of the width of the roll stands that form it. These are understandably massive in order to hold deflection within spec. Steel mills are designed around them.
It is a very impressive fingerprint magnate.