57 thoughts on “600,000 Refugees”

  3. If it is like an invading army, which invading army is it like? It sure isn’t like June 6, 1944. Your post should make Germany want to channel Lloyd Bentsen….

    Germany: “I’ve experienced invading armies, and this sir, is no invading army!”

    2. If it is like an invading army, which invading army is it like?

      I don’t know. I’m having a hard time thinking of historical examples of governments that actually invited foreign invaders in, and then prosecuted and punished their own citizens who objected.

          1. Yup. Only this time instead of needing Visigoths and Alans to defend against the Huns, Europe needs immigrants to defend against Unfunded Liability.

      2. ” I’m having a hard time thinking of historical examples of governments that actually invited foreign invaders in, and then prosecuted and punished their own citizens who objected.”

        Here is an academic paper titled “Intervention by Invitation” by Georg Nolte
        listing, by my very rough count, at least 75 such invitations, all of which occurred in countries you’ve heard of after World War II.

        http://opil.ouplaw.com/view/10.1093/law:epil/9780199231690/law-9780199231690-e1702?prd=EPIL

        You will certainly want to dispute some of them, if you get into the details. For example, the supposed Czech invitation of the Soviet troops ending Czechoslovakia’s Prague Spring is hard to believe, even after the post-Soviet government gave Vaclav Havel new evidence.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact_invasion_of_Czechoslovakia#Letter_of_invitation.

        But with 75+ invitations listed, I think you’ll find many of them meet your criteria.

  4. It sure isn’t like June 6, 1944.

    Go ahead Bob, explain why it isn’t. You know you want to, no one’s stopping you. Chapter and verse, lay it out.

  5. Another possible explanation is that some refugees have applied many times, looking to get sent to the city of their choice.

    So it might not even be that many people in the first place. Let’s see if there’s a real problem first.

    2. Yes, repeated recent taharrush mass incidents are certainly no indication of a real problem. I mean, if all the male participants registered first, then there’s nothing to fear.

    1. Ha! Nice answer!

      And yes, 30 to 40 guys hidden away sounds like it is the right order of magnitude, compared to the more than 2,000,000 allied soldiers involved in Operation Overlord, and 2 million more on the Soviet side. So, enemy infiltrators rather than an invading army.

      The guys hidden in the Trojan horse opened the gates for the Greek army to actually invade. I think the analogy breaks down there, since there is no corresponding invading army today.

      1. For Curt: the final numbers of soldiers involved were higher: “By April 1945, Germany faced its last days with 1.9 million German soldiers in the East fighting 6.4 million Red Army soldiers while 1 million German soldiers in the West battled 4 million Western Allied soldiers.” -wikipedia

        To answer your question, Curt: the number of people involved today is much smaller, the number of people who could get killed or injured today is far smaller, and most of all: Germany faced its “last days” back then, whereas the current German state does not face its last days.

        Why would it?

        Terrorism? Terrorism is horrible for the individuals involved and upsetting for everyone else, but it doesn’t constitute an end to a state the way an invading army does.

        Cultural threats? I think Western culture is just so inherently more fun that the Islamists don’t stand a chance.

        WMDS? We all can imagine various types of WMD changing the equation today in terms of how much damage a small group of people can do, but even if Europe says no to every refugee applicant, it will still face the same WMD threats, as some kinds of WMDs are easy to deliver and Europe won’t have impenetrable borders regardless of its refugee policy.

      2. Bob, June 6, 1944 only involved about 156,000 allied troops and no Soviet troops. If you are going to chastise people while acting like a smartass; you might start with getting your facts straight.

        One more thing, the invasion of Normandy is not the only example of invasions in the history of the world (as a few people have already pointed out to you).

        And yeah, if you are going to focus on Normandy and a specific date, to make a stupid point about an invading army must only look like that example; then you can be held to your initial date of June 6, 1944. You can’t count troops from August. Further, you can’t use the term Operation Overlord, and count the Soviet troops involved in Operation Barbarossa.

        1. Since the topic is whether Germany is currently being invaded by an army or something like one, June 6, 1944 came to mind for me as the (start of the) last time Germany was invaded. I did link to 75+ rather different invasions. If you want to “hold me” to June 6th, or if you want to consider the whole of Operation Overlord (which lasted until the end of August and ultimately involved three million allied solders), or if you want to consider the ultimate defeat of Germany involving still millions more soldiers, since it is only right to credit the Soviet Union with the Nazi’s demise, it doesn’t matter at all to me. Why? Because Curt wanted to know what was the difference between the current supposed invasion of Germany and the invasion of Germany in World War II, and my answer involves two numbers and a yes or no question: 1)the number of soldiers involved, 2) the number of casualties (civilian as well as military), and 3) the nature of the threat (will it cause the end of Germany as a state, yes or no?).

          I think it is interesting to listen to you guys because yes, many of you really do think that this will cause the end of modern day Germany as we know it. And even those of you who don’t think that it will end Germany as we know it think the threat is severe enough to deny asylum to tens of thousands of innocent people who need a refuge. There might be more terrorism and other serious crimes, but I think it is completely overblown to compare what is happening to the severe threat of an invading army.

          2. Because Curt

            You responded to newsrouter. He commented about the Trojan War, not Normandy. You were so set on being an asshat to him, you got your facts wrong. You still aren’t getting facts straight. And your entire argument rests on a the back of several strawmen. You should have quit long ago.

          3. There might be more terrorism and other serious crimes, but…

            … my freedom to signal my virtue shall not be infringed upon!!!11!!

      3. That depends on how you define what an army is but don’t forget their definition of what an army is takes precedence. I’ve noticed that people who embrace being multicultural don’t actually understand other cultures or different ways of viewing reality.

        In all the talk about nativism, many people do not even comprehend their own ethnic chauvinism which denies refugees their own agency, desires, and cultural paradigm.

        The tip off for this is people wanting to import refugees and force them to become American citizens with the assumption they want to but without regard to their actual desires. This is a form of intervention guided by values or ideology, similar to invading Iraq or destroying Libya. To use a common stereotype, it its an arrogant Ugly American way to deal with not wanting to be arrogant Ugly Americans.

        We are going to help them whether they like it or not and everyone has a desire for Democracy, rule of law, capitalism, classical liberalism, and wants to live the American Dream. I hope you can see the well intentioned contradictions in policy from the right and left that both express different aspects of the same ideology.

        In this case, we are not punishing another country but rather our own. I don’t think we should all be punished in this manner because Democrats feel guilty about how Obama handled his wars and diplomatic failures in the Middle East and Africa. To truly help these people, you have to consider them as human beings with their own desires, motivations, and ways of life but that would mean helping them over there, which is an impossability to Democrats unless it can be done in secret with drones and special forces.

        I am just not seeing Democrats view this as a problem that involves actual human beings rather than tragic caricatures of human beings.

  9. I wasn’t that concerned before, but if Bob-1, charter member of The Gang That’s Wrong About Everything, thinks there’s no reason to be concerned, I say fort up and make y=sure your guns are loaded.

  10. I recommend to Bob-1 that he read a decent history book – or several. His ignorant comments are ignored.

    In the meantime, not only is there a street rape and assault culture going on in Germany and several other European countries, we not have the sort of lawlessness that begets Fascistic Socialist gangs:

    (CNN)Several hundred migrants, in the presence of supporting demonstrators, broke into the northern French port of Calais, tearing down barriers and allowing about 50 of them to board a ship, the mayor said Saturday.

    Thirty-five people were arrested, the Pas-de-Calais prefecture said, according to CNN affiliate BFMTV.

    The prefecture said that 24 of those arrested are migrants and 11 are members of the pro-migrant activist group No Borders, according to BFMTV. About 110 migrants were removed from the port zone.

    1. 110 = Company strength.

      That’s half the number Earl Rudder used to take Pointe du Hoc, but then again, the Germans guarding Pointe du Hoc were not quite as welcoming. Also Rudder and his Rangers were successful.

  11. That 600,000 people is about the same number in the “army” illegally “invading” the US each year for the past few decades.

    1. What is your point? Germany’s population is 81 million, the US’ is 320 million, so the percentages are different. But that notwithstanding, the illegals that come here aren’t part of a culture that wants to destroy the West. There are many reasons why illegal immigration is detrimental to US society, but in this case, those from Asia and below the Rio Grande aren’t members of a murderous religion.

      1. People interpret their religion, and other peoples religion, in whatever way best suits them, the most murderous religions in WW2 were the Germans interpretation of Christianity at that time and the Japanese interpretation of Shinto at that time. By labeling Islam as “murderous” you’re just demonstrating your own bigotry driven myopia, in a different age you’d be targeting the Japanese, blacks, native American’s or one of many other religions, races or cultures that didn’t fit with your view of how other people should live their lives.

        1. the Germans interpretation of Christianity at that time

          That’s historically insane and libelous. Nazism had nothing to do with Christianity. It was Nordic pagan.

          1. Possibly I should have said “Nazi’s” rather than “German’s” but either way, the people we’re talking about considered themselves Christian’s and certainly not “pagans”.

          3. Where are they Christian? Where, after Mein Kampf, does Hitler act like a Christian? Was it the time when he put his picture in all of the churches in Germany?

            Shall we discuss the history of Islam? Shall I point out the crucifixions and enslavement of Christian girls by Isis? Shall I point out the Armenian genocide?

            Why are you such an anti-Christian bigot? Your answers reveal your deep-seated disgust with the West and in the past you probably would’ve sold out your neighbor for reading the Catholic bible back in Puritan England.

          4. Nazi party membership peaked at around 8.5 million, since the overwhelming majority of Germans of the time were Christians, it’s certain most Nazi party members were Christians. “Christians who were members of the Nazi Party, for survival” people joined to get into the in group, and because membership could be beneficial to them, certainly similar motivations are at work with people joining ISIS, but ISIS is the exception in Islam in the same way that Nazism is the exception in Christianity.

            Shall we discuss the history of Islam? Shall I point out the crucifixions and enslavement of Christian girls by Isis?

            Don’t limit yourself to Islam, you’ll find richer pickings by pointing out the history of humanity.

            Why are you such an anti-Christian bigot? Your answers reveal your deep-seated disgust with the West and in the past you probably would’ve sold out your neighbor for reading the Catholic bible back in Puritan England.

            That comment says much about you an nothing about me. When people want to promote hate the first thing they do – ALWAYS the first thing they do – is claim that they themselves are morally superior, think back through history, all the hate mongers claimed they were morally superior to those they were intent on destroying, the leaders in ISIS are doing it now, Palestinian haters are doing it, Israel haters are doing it, Muslim haters are doing it. Any idiot can go point to faults in a targeted group, pick out the actions of a few in a group and tar the whole group, because every group has faults, every group has bad apples finding reasons to hate another group is easy, any idiot can do it.

          5. Nazism is the exception in Christianity.

            Nazism is not “the exception in Christianity.” It has absolutely nothing to do with it.

            Don’t limit yourself to Islam, you’ll find richer pickings by pointing out the history of humanity.

            Not recently.

          6. Nazism is not “the exception in Christianity.” It has absolutely nothing to do with it.

            Are you also going to argue that antisemitism has nothing to do with the other religions of the book?

            Not recently.

            I can find recent atrocities committed by Christian’s, Buddhist’s, atheists and Hindi’s that are comparable to or worse than those committed by Muslim’s.

            Bosnia, Cambodia, Rwanda, Kashmir.

          7. Are you also going to argue that antisemitism has nothing to do with the other religions of the book?

            No. Are you going to continue to offer ahistorical non sequiturs?

            I can find recent atrocities committed by Christian’s, Buddhist’s, atheists and Hindi’s that are comparable to or worse than those committed by Muslim’s.

            Not on the same scale. And learn how to use apostrophes.

          9. They were largely atheists (probably including Hitler). If Muslims “haven’t caught up yet,” it’s not for lack of trying. Just wait until ISIS (or maybe even Iran) get their hands on nuclear weapons.

          12. Just wait until ISIS (or maybe even Iran) get their hands on nuclear weapons.

            So instead of measuring past atrocities we should judge on future atrocities.

            Oh
            Boy.

          16. I’m referring to the small, but not insignificant minority who want to institute a global caliphate. That poll is meaningless in that context, unless they’re willing to actually fight ISIS. Which they largely are not.

          17. Well a small but not insignificant minority of Americans would like to see all Muslims treated differently and very harshly compared to the rest of us.
            Which smells of you-know-what.

  12. is claim that they themselves are morally superior

    Funny, looking at this thread (and others), the claims of moral superiority seem to be somewhat more strident when coming from one direction. When beheadings, immolation, slavery, child rape, stoning of homosexuals, honor killing, female mutilation, etc., all in the name of Islam, are denounced, why does the virtue-signaling response so often lack any condemnation of the abhorrent behavior? It’s almost as if even noting it should be banned. Like, wouldn’t we all be so much better off if we could get the media and government to somehow cooperate to keep the existence of this stuff hidden?

  13. Alf’s outrage is quite laughable, as he was nowhere to be found when the Christians in the Middle East were being persecuted last year. Your silence was deafening, and it makes your current anger at so-called Islamophobia nothing more than propaganda.

  14. @Alf Fass For someone who scapegoats Christianity for the NAZI and supports importing Muslim refugees and making them Americans whether they want to be Americans or not, you can climb down off your high horse of moral superiority any time you want.

    The problem with militant Islamists is far larger than just ISIS or AQ. There are thousands of similar groups. Their roots go back far before the 1970’s or even the collapse of the last caliphate, the Ottoman Empire. These groups have wide support among the global Muslim population. A poll about whether or not people like ISIS isn’t going to tell you much. A better poll would look at specific beliefs.

    We are living through a global insurgency, which can not happen without the support of a significant portion of the populace. Our own allies, like Saudi Arabia, are a big part of the problem.

    Your link to deaths in the 20th century is nice but remember that the religious and ethnic cleansing done by ISIS and all other similar militant Islamist groups is in the millions just in recent years and far higher when you look back over the centuries.

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