Economics, Media Criticism, Political Commentary, Space, Technology and Society

Arguing About Destinations

9 Comments

…is getting us nowhere.

Yes, it’s pointless and distracting. We need to be developing capabilities to go wherever we want. But there’s not enough graft in that.

I should note that while my Kickstarter is about clearing the roadblock to Mars, it’s really about clearing the roadblock to everywhere, which is the false perception that we cannot go beyond earth orbit unless NASA builds a giant rocket. It’s all part of ending the old Apollo cargo cult.

9 thoughts on “Arguing About Destinations”

  1. Leaving solar system settlement in the hands of the U.S. government will guarantee that it will never happen. I don’t believe it can be allowed to play any role (including regulatory) in the future of human spaceflight, if human spaceflight is to have a future.

    Will Pomerantz is exactly right. We need to just go out and do it. The people who want to go to the moon should figure out how to do it, and do it. Elon wants to go to Mars, and is in the process of doing just that. He’s getting some revenue and “credibility” by having NASA contracts, but they are not “subsidies,” and in fact are probably more of a hindrance than help. At some point, he will likely cut that cord.

    There are things to do at every destination in space, known and yet to be discovered. There will never be a consensus on a step-wise path, especially if NASA is involved. So don’t involve them, just figure out how to do it without them and do it. I am involved in something like that right now, and it can be done. I encourage everyone to start thinking, and then start doing.

    1. He’s getting some revenue and “credibility” by having NASA contracts, but they are not “subsidies,” and in fact are probably more of a hindrance than help. At some point, he will likely cut that cord.

      Elon has said that SpaceX will not go to Mars without NASA and NASA scientists major customers for his Mars colony. (In fact, NASA is the only customer he has identified so far. If he has others in mind, he hasn’t revealed them.)

      The libertarian Elon yearning to break free from the yoke of government oppression does not exist, except in the minds of some followers.

      As for subsidies, hmm…. ProSpace, SFF, et. al. said it was politically incorrect to support tax incentives because incentives are subsidies. Strange that allowing people to keep part of their own money is considered a subsidy, but government paying for a substantial part of a company’s R&D is “not a subsidy.” NewSpace ought to publish a NewSpeak dictionary.

      1. Tax incentives are indeed subsidies. They are not allowing someone to keep more of his own money, they are taking somewhat more away from someone else in order to let him keep his. If you get a mortgage deduction, it means that people who rent are being taxed to help pay for your house.

        1. George Orwell could not have said it better. 🙂

          Money does not originate with the government. It originates with the productivity of private individuals. Government has nothing, except what it takes from those individuals.

          Those who believe in the supremacy of the State over the individual classify every every tax reduction as a “subsidy.” But as Lincoln said, calling a tail a leg does not make it a leg.

      2. Any thing you say can and will be used against you. It’s hard to be a purist in this world. Outright blatant hypocrites can get away with it because nobody expects better, but if you just dip your toes in the hypocrite waters, watch out, the sharks will get ya.

        Elon is not perfect. He is no god. He is not worshiped. He is accomplishing what others, to this day, say we can’t do (making them look like the idiots they are.)

        NASA is Elon’s customer. So people naturally assume he’s sold his soul. Perhaps so. It does not really matter as long as the result is capability we can use and we’re getting that.

        The perfect is the enemy of the good [enough.]

        1. the result is capability we can use and we’re getting that

          Who is “we,” Ken? I haven’t used Dragon or ISS recently and can’t afford to. Have you?

          SpaceX used to talk about selling rides on Dragon to millionaires (not lesser mortals). They no longer talk about it. Elon’s fanboys seem to believe things Elon himself doesn’t claim.

          1. We is humanity. The point is these things now exist.

            Humanity will get the use of them regardless of how else we’re screwed up.

  2. The only bad outcome [is] the decision to go nowhere. Let’s just go out there and do the damn thing.

    Right. Any disagreement?

    This requires a budget and a clearly defined goal.

    $500m/yr would do it. That’s 37 different destinations looking at $18.5b/yr. Why could we not all get behind that?

    37 Department heads that must show results to keep their jobs.

    The Moon? Do it!
    Mercury? Do it!
    Venus clouds? Do it!
    Mars? Yeah.
    Asteroids? Pick ten. Do them.
    Moons beyond the belt? Of course!

    SLS/Orion? Sure, as long as they do not spend more than 1/2 billion per year.

    Do them all. Pick replacements so new destinations come online as goals are accomplished. This way we always accomplish goals and never waste tens of billions on rockets to nowhere.

    I’d much rather we did it without NASA money, but this is how you just go out and do it.

  3. Perhaps the head of FIFA can help Putin keep the business now that he’s out of a job.

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