…was snatched by Obama from Bush’s victory.
I can’t imagine how bad the morale must be for those who fought to take back Anbar from Al Qaeda.
[Update a while later, from Long Beach]
If Ramadi is not recaptured, Sunni Iraq will have slipped to ISIS, and all the king’s horses and all the king’s men may never be able to put Iraq back together again. On the other hand, if the U.S. backs the militias’ advance, it may well be party to ethnic bloodshed that will put the killings after the fall of Tikrit to pale. Thus, even if the militas do retake Ramadi the methods they employ could so deeply antagonize the non-ISIS-supporting elements of the Sunni population as to have the same result: no more Iraq.
While publicly the Administration and the Pentagon have started to sound a bit like Baghdad Bob, Administration officials have anonymously begun voicing their unease with the situation, in one instance describing Ramadi as a “powder keg” noting that there is a potential for things to go “very, very badly.”
This is what happens when you put a “community organizer” in charge of…well…anything.
Putting aside the political commentary of the situation; I still recall the TopGear Middle East episode filmed in this area. Filming was in 2010. There is no way that could be done in this region today.
Say what you want about Top Gear, but they showed the humanity of the people in this region. They baffooned those who claimed it was just too dangerous a place to be. And they were mobbed by adoring fans in Iraq and in Syria. This was just 5 years ago.
Indeed. They were in more danger from themselves (James standing too close to the tow rope and getting knocked to the ground), than from any outside source.
I want to hear see a GOP candidate answer the “knowing what we know now” question something like this:
“Knowing what I know now, that the US would expend billions in treasure and an immeasurable cost in blood to succeed (emphasis on succeed) in gaining a victory in Iraq only to have that victory thrown away for political purposes by the next administration, no I would not go to war in Iraq regardless of the many legitimate reasons to do so.”
I can’t believe we didn’t light up their victory parade. Had a convoy stretching as far as the eye could see and zero A-10s in the sky.
The second link shows the duplicity of Obama who said that Shia needed to give greater voice to Sunni in Iraq, because that was the cause for the rise of ISIS, then unleashed the Iranian proxy militias, who we were fighting just a few years ago, on the civilians of our ally Iraq. Total disgrace.
Why will Anbar fight for Obama or Iraq if the Obama sends in Iranian militias to brutalize the populace?
I can’t understand how genocide in Iraq, Yemen, Syria, and Libya isn’t getting wall to wall coverage especially considering it is due in large part to Obama’s policies. And what about Afghanistan? Is the media’s love of Obama so strong they would rather sweep this modern day Holocaust under the rug or are they too scared of what Obama would do if they reported reality?
especially considering it is due in large part to Obama’s policies
It appears you’ve answered your own question.
I am one of the people who answers the quesation, “Knowing what we know now, would you still have invaded Iraq,” with an emphatic yes. I would have pursued a different strategy from the outset, more troops for one thing, but there were other valid reasons besides WMD for doing it and we did find some 2000 chemical weapons shells in varying states of usefulness. That said though, I do not understand why the Iraqi army has consistently dissolved in the face of ISIS. I do not understand why, in virtually every conflict for the past 75 years, the people we back seem extremely reluctant to fight for what is in their best interests but our enemies are always skilled and enthusisastic fighters. How come our people are never willing to fight for there own lands, liberties and their very lives?
Rand,
While I agree Obama has done an awful job with foreign policy, I’ve never been convinced by the claim that we were anywhere close to winning in Iraq when Obama took over. I think The Surge helped paper over a lot of issues that hadn’t really been resolved, and weren’t really on a trajectory to being resolved. It definitely made the numbers look better, but had a Republican won in 08 or 12, I doubt the situation in the Middle East would on net be much better. It would be screwed up in a totally different way, and maybe some local areas might be marginally better, but I just don’t see Obama, Romney, or McCain as really being that connected with reality when it came to the Middle East.
Your mileage obviously varies,
~Jon
GOP says: “watch out for Russia”. Donks say “1980 wants its foreign policy back”. Russia invades Ukraine. Donks say, “who coulda’ foreseen it?”
GOP says, “don’t pull out of Iraq, or there will be a bloodbath”. Donks say, “nyah, nyah, nyah”. Bloodbath ensues. Donks say, “who coulda’ foreseen it?”
Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
One of the ways to look at it to prove that the Surge was a success and that Iraq was successfully stabilized as a result is that 3 years went by without any type of ISIS-like or Al Qaeda like group from arising within the region. But then the moment American boots withdrew from the region a flood of militants from some 20 different countries came flooding into the region to fill the power vacuum. If the Surge wasn’t successful, if we hadn’t ‘won’ stability in the region then one would have to believe that it was just a huge coincidence that ISIS arrived right when the U.S. left after 3 year had gone by.
Meanwhile…conflicting reports on whether ISIS will shortly have control of the ruins of Palmyra. Granted, there are humanitarian horrors aplenty, but no doubt they would blow it up and bulldoze it into dust – while selling selected portable items on the underground antiquities market.
This is tremendous cultural catastrophe for the entire world, and I am not working for the Syrian bureau of antiquities, BTW.
So confirmed now that Palmyra is gone.
If you need gravel, they’ll soon be producing a lot.
In’shallah.
The concept runs very deep over there.
I do think that some good fruits of the Surge were basically thrown away, and thrown away thoughtlessly.
That said, Iraq is a country that doesn’t make much sense at all, and it has always been ruled by some kind of autocracy – i.e., at the end of a barrel. I have real doubts that you can hold together Shi’ite southern Iraq and the Sunni heartland together otherwise (and the Kurds at this point might as well have their own country).
And on the present course, I think that breakup is going to happen, as Shi’ite militias get into the picture. The fighting will end up being over the border, and exactly what to do with Baghdad. The biggest losers, of course, will be Iraqi Christians – they never had the power or cohesion to forge their own statelet out of Iraq, and only a third of the 1.2 million there in 2003 remain today.
I have spent 12 years of my life training young (and not so young) officers to go to Iraq.
The loss of Iraq infuriates me, and lost it is – either to ISIS or Iran. It does not matter, this will come back to haunt us.
I have known men/women who went there and did not return.
The surge Pres. Bush conducted (admittedly late and after Sec Rumsfeld left) was successful. We had a stable Iraq, an Iraqi Army that was defending their homeland. An integrated force (Shia and Sunni) that had a common goal and mission. Men that were willing to stand up to Al Queda and Iranian Militia.
How we, as a nation, could accept snatching defeat from the jaws of victory still puzzles me.
I know this is cold, but it is the world I grew up in (a soldier for 22 years).
We lost 4,000ish men during the Normandy Invasion (130 hours) and didn’t quit. We went on to destroy the Reich – within 2 years.
The question I ask is what has changed and why do we quit and toss away the sacrifice of losing 4,000ish in 10 years in Iraq.
Somehow, somewhere, we lost perspective on what it takes to enforce your will on the bad guys.
Multiculturalism.
If you’re walking into the situation with the idea that the -culture- is fine, ‘every culture is equal’, that they ‘just’ need some guidance and money for setting up and organizing some institutions, you’re going to have a long haul.
I personally still favor the ‘Hadrian’s Wall’ approach, where -some- patch has to be run under American law. Let all the development and infrastructure appear inside the brand new, growing ‘American Zones’. Make the new Shanghai and Hong Kongs from scratch.
“The question I ask is what has changed and why do we quit and toss away the sacrifice ”
Politics. The Democrats have rooted against the war in Iraq since right after they voted for it. An Iraq free of violence and working on mending civil disagreements would make Bush look good and because that goes against the narrative, Iraq must be a failure even if Democrats have to be the ones to make it that way.
You notice the media wasn’t pushing the line, “This is the most peaceful time in human history.” When Bush was in office. They do it now so that the public doesn’t know about what is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan but also Libya, Yemen, Syria, Pakistan, Nigeria, ect ect ect. It’s the most peaceful time in the world, so none of this genocide and stuff should be covered by the media.
Mike I thank you for your service and share your frustration at the current situation. I grieve for all those who were lost in Iraq. I wish someone at the Army War College would write a book about the years AFTER VE Day in 1945. Just after the official German surrender did not mean all Germans gave up. There were months and months of continued violence and fighting as pockets of armed Nazi resistance remained strong. How the allies and esp. how the US Army maintained order and worked hard to establish a new German society from the ruins of a fanatical ideology with roots in Aryan mythology that ran as deep then among Germans as does radicalized Islam in the Mideast today. It would be not only a fascinating study but could hardly be any less relevant today. We have one more chance with Afghanistan. Let’s not screw that one up.
I am not the Mike from above – though his comments are valid.
Okay, the Mike from way above – I am Mike for 8:03 PM.
How we, as a nation, could accept snatching defeat from the jaws of victory still puzzles me.
We are no longer a nation. We are various factions working against each other. We let the enemy within because the enemy without could not have made us fall. Now we are seeing the end game.
The saddest thing is real American’s (which includes many immigrants) are still in the majority but shrink from the fight.
The fight needs to start with the media. They shouldn’t be able to find a job if they don’t hold to American principles. The enemy isn’t the ridiculous left wing, it’s the apologists like Bill O’Reilly.
Once the media is fixed, education will be easy. We have the winning arguments, we just need to clear the mud.
Then we take a page from the lefts playbook… we don’t let them rehash arguments we’ve already won. I don’t want to ever hear another minimum wage argument. We’re right, they’re wrong. Move on.
We can’t deal with the world until we deal with ourselves.