Add fraud:
It sounds like the systems that are supposed to check identity, immigration status and income simply aren’t working at all; the system just assumes that you are who you say you are.
Gosh, it’s almost like they don’t care.
Of course, I’m not sure that “add” is the right word. The whole thing has always been pretty much fraud all the way down.
Many, many people who want Obamacare also hate “corporations”, or believe the free market has led to higher insurance rates. What is truly sad is the economic ignorance that leads to these beliefs. We have not had a free market in health care since the 1930s. Unfortunately, people like Jim will never understand this, and instead, use their knee-jerk reaction that “government solutions are better” to make the problem even worse.
State insurance commissioners led to higher insurance rates by limiting competition within the states. Overregulation led to higher rates.
So we’re afraid that crooks will invent imaginary people, so they can pay insurance premiums to buy them coverage? That … doesn’t seem like a big worry.
Don’t pretend to be stupid. It doesn’t become you.
I’m not pretending :). Seriously, what sort of fraud are we worried about here? The linked article says:
Still, it’s obviously troubling that people could so easily fraudulently obtain government subsidies, because the incentive to do so is obvious: free money from the government.
Except that the fraudsters don’t get free money from the government, they get an insurance card that they can only use if they pay premiums, something they could get by using their real names. Subsidies aren’t paid to the fraudsters, they go straight to the insurers.
This isn’t the sort of thing that real criminals (as opposed to GAO investigators) are likely to do. Real criminals do things like file fake tax returns for real taxpayers, in order to steal their refunds. Now that is a security problem worth worrying about, but it doesn’t have anything to do with Obamacare, so it isn’t politically interesting.
So, if I understand you correctly, you’re saying that health care treatment is, in fact, valueless?
Is that what you’re saying?
Except that the fraudsters don’t get free money from the government, they get an insurance card that they can only use if they pay premiums, something they could get by using their real names. Subsidies aren’t paid to the fraudsters, they go straight to the insurers.
Are you freaking kidding me? So, if they get a subsidy on their premiums that they aren’t entitled to, they don’t benefit from paying a lower price for their insurance? Suppose the insurance would cost them $1000 a month without subsidy and $500 a month with one. Do you honestly think they don’t benefit from having to pay a lower price? If so, then your economic ignorance just reached new heights.
The whole nature of the insurance subsidies is nothing more or less than another wealth transfer. Some people have to pay higher taxes or higher insurance costs so others get a break. “From each according to their means, to each according to their needs.”
Jim, what sort of guiding principles do you have in your life? Seriously.
I mean, I can look people in the eye, I can look at myself in the mirror. I make moral judgements; I can see what is Right and what is Wrong and what is ambiguous and needs further thought and discussion.
And if I was defending the crap you defend, I would be disgusted with myself. But, I know my moral code, and I don’t know yours. I can guesstimate, but I’d rather hear it from you.
Consider yourself the proxy voice of the Left.
Modern-day Kafka: One day Jim woke up and found that he had turned into dn-guy . . .
I’m glad I wasn’t drinking anything when I read that.
Well, it’s completely true that the more we expand coverage, the cheaper it gets. Uh, not.
Seriously Jim, you’ve never heard of insurance fraud? Or do you believe everybody is paying the same premium and receiving the same subsidies and coverage? If everyone was paying the same premium and receiving the same subsidies, would we not hear from you about how a flat system was unfair to the poor and too beneficial for the rich?
Will you support a flat tax system, everybody pays $10,000 a year regardless of how much they make for a tax revenue of $3 trillion, which is 10% higher than fy2013 revenue? Or do you favor a system in which a persons id must be established, so that we can determine how much they earn and tax them a percentage of wages, and if they lie about who they are, then we have an organization dedicated to prosecuting them?
Insurance fraud is impossible in the socialist state, where everyone works for the common good!
A redneck goes to an insurance office to get his home covered for fire. The agent says “Okay, here’s a policy that will cover you for fire, theft, and flood for only $75 a month. The man replies, “Can I get that without the flood insurance?” The agent asks “Why wouldn’t you want flood insurance?” The man says, “Because I can’t start a flood.”
So someone who has too much income to qualify for subsidies is going to pretend to be an imaginary poor person in order to get cheaper health insurance? To use that insurance he’s going to have to keep up this charade anytime he seeks medical care. His medical records are going to be in the name of an imaginary person.
I’m not saying that this sort of fraud is impossible, just that the risk/reward ratio is unattractive, especially compared to other sorts of fraud.
That’s because you don’t understand scammers. They have no intention of giving anything back.
His medical records are going to be in the name of an imaginary person.
You think that is hard? Fake IDs? Corrupt bureaucrats who take a payoff?
Myopia is an unpleasant defect. I just googled disability fraud and guess how many hits I got?
Here’s just one article on that 200 billion a year scam.
Seriously, Jim. You are either the most naive, trusting individual I’ve met, or the most partisan.
I vote for both
You’re making my point. Disability fraud is a real problem. You fake disability, and you get money for life. Oh, and you also get free health coverage through Medicare.
Faking eligibility for ACA exchange subsidies isn’t nearly as attractive — the subsidies go to the insurer, and you have the hassle of paying premiums and pretending to be someone else every single time you want to see a doctor or fill a prescription. Why would a criminal choose that scam over the others available?
See Jon, your fraud isn’t Jim’s fraud, so no other fraud exists. Quid pro quo.
In the meantime doctor shopping just got cheaper.
Faking eligibility for ACA exchange subsidies isn’t nearly as attractive — the subsidies go to the insurer, and you have the hassle of paying premiums and pretending to be someone else every single time you want to see a doctor or fill a prescription. Why would a criminal choose that scam over the others available?
Well, how many times can he fake it? If I have an insurance business and I slip a few tens of thousands of fake people, all allegedly making barely the minimum to qualify for health insurance subsides, onto my rolls, then that’s several thousand dollars per fake person in subsidies per year. That’s tens of millions of dollars per year.
What Jon said.
Why would somebody commit medical insurance fraud? How about multiple scripts for Oxycodone?
Well, half the left thinks the rich people are hoarding all the lung transplants and flu shots.
His medical records are going to be in the name of an imaginary person.
I’m failing to see the drawback for such a person, particularly under 40 years of age.
If there is no system to check IDs, what exactly is the risk in the risk/reward discussion, Jim?
Leland, I believe that to Jim, people who want free whatever should just get it, and “the rich,” all us suckers who have jobs and pay taxes, need to pay for it. Because social justice. Or something.
Wouldn’t it be racist to check IDs, or is that just for voting?
“So someone who has too much income to qualify for subsidies is going to pretend to be an imaginary poor person in order to get cheaper health insurance?”
Yes (among other problems). Why do you think people won’t do this?
People cheat like this all the time. tax cheats (Geithner for example); people who get an EBT card, and food stamps, wire the money to their family back in Central America and then get food at the food pantries for the poor; people who work for under the table pay.
Is this really your defense?
Oh no, the medical records won’t be in their proper name, they’ll have to remain a scammer for a long time to keep it up? Are you fucking serious with this shit?
If someone goes to a doctor to get a broken leg treated or even a gall bladder removed, they don’t exactly have any major long term implications, so avoiding the medical bills for the moment is a huge financial boon. If, at some point, the issue seems relevant later then it only takes a moment to mention “oh, I broke my leg once” or “I had my gallbladder out” and then the doctor will just add a note to their chart. They’re not fucking Columbo, they’re not going to grill you on where you had the operation and whether or not you committed insurance fraud, they’ve got other shit to worry about.
“So we’re afraid that crooks will invent imaginary people…”
Yeah you know…like the 50,000 imaginary people who got EBT cards in Massachusetts….
Potempkin village. Just build the parts users see.
Maybe I could do that at my IT job at this hospital. No, better not: it might affect patients’ health care.
This ^^
They only care as long as it looks good on the outside, the portions the public sees when they visit the web portal. They don’t care about the back end as we saw with the roll out and the cosmetic fixes they claimed fixed the system.
The government mentality is to measure success by inputs, not outcomes. It a line of thinking similar to the Labor Theory of Value except that the more money they spend, the more successful a program is considered regardless of whether it actually works or not.
Ok Jim, I’m with you on this one. I also think that a rich person should be able to file taxes under a false identity to pay less taxes. After all its the same thing, rest of the tax payers pick up the tab /sarc
Somewhat off topic, but I suggest we see if insurance will cover us for having the newly discovered phage that’s infecting the gut bacteria of half the planet’s population.
Frankly, I just want to hear the doctor say “Your stool sample tested positive for Assphage.”
Yeah, they named it that. ^_^
Go research team!!!
New IRS Form Proves Obama Lied About Individual Mandate Tax
On Thursday the IRS released a slew of draft 2014 tax forms. The new draft Form 1040 shows a new surtax line has been created for the payment of the individual mandate surtax – see line 61 of the 1040:
President Obama has repeatedly denied that the surtax is in fact actually a tax. The most prominent example was a heated exchange on ABC’s This Week in Sept. 2009, when George Stephanopoulos confronted Obama with a dictionary:
STEPHANOPOULOS: I — I don’t think I’m making it up. Merriam Webster’s Dictionary: Tax — “a charge, usually of money, imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes.”
OBAMA: George, the fact that you looked up Merriam’s Dictionary, the definition of tax increase, indicates to me that you’re stretching a little bit right now. Otherwise, you wouldn’t have gone to the dictionary to check on the definition. I mean what…
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, no, but…
OBAMA: …what you’re saying is…
STEPHANOPOULOS: I wanted to check for myself. But your critics say it is a tax increase.
OBAMA: My critics say everything is a tax increase. My critics say that I’m taking over every sector of the economy. You know that.
Look, we can have a legitimate debate about whether or not we’re going to have an individual mandate or not, but…
STEPHANOPOULOS: But you reject that it’s a tax increase?
OBAMA: I absolutely reject that notion.