No, it wasn’t a few “rogue agents,” and anyone who believed that was a fool:
The claim that “rogue agents” came up with the Be On the Lookout (BOLO) list never made any sense. The claim that “rogue agents” came up with the many detailed questions that conservative groups were subjected to never made any sense. The claim that “rogue agents” would come up with so much extra work for themselves, outside their normal responsibilities and outside their union contract, never made any sense. Getting unionized workers to do extra work requires the union’s buy-in. Getting bureaucrats to do extra work requires orders from their superiors. That’s how government works.
The IRS itself has blown Lerner’s story apart, saying that as many 88 employees are being looked at. The agency is still evidently trying to contain the scandal to its lower ranks, but the deposed IRS agents say they were following orders from those above them.
Of course they were. The only question is from how far above. And when one considers what happened to True The Vote, Gibson Guitar, et al, it’s clearly above the IRS. It’s either the White House, the campaign, or both since there probably wasn’t much in the way of a wall between them, despite the pretence of running the latter out of Chicago).
As someone once said, there is a cancer on the presidency, and it’s going to continue to metastasise.
There was one telling quote by Stephanie Cutter on Tapper’s show (IIRC) speaking about the 118 visits by the IRS head.
“I know they weren’t political because I was there for quite a few. They were about Obamacare implementation.” (Paraphrased) The key bit of missing information is that she wasn’t part of the administration at that point – she’d gone back to being a ‘political’.
So a political operative is admitting she was a part of a meeting on how the IRS should implement Obamacare.
Gee . . . since Stephanie Cutter was part of the President’s re-election campaign team and not an officer in the executive branch when these meetings took place Obama cannot claim executive privilege to shield her from testifying to Congress on her memories of those meetings.
Too bad.
There was an excellent post this morning at Ace of Spades:
The IRS scandal as an example of runaway organizational culture
In other words, the problem goes much deeper than a political scandal.
Rickl, that was a terrific post; thanks for sharing
the nature of the questions the IRS asked of its targeted groups read like political opposition research — in other words, political campaign activity
They also read like questions trying to determine whether the applicant is engaged in political campaign activity, which is exactly what the process is supposed to uncover.
Is that today’s talking point? To justify and excuse the IRS?
So then show us the same detailed and intrusive lists being asked of groups supportive of Progressive Leftist political activities. Why aren’t these groups complaining about being intimidated and having their applications held up? Complaining and whining and screaming is there reason for being, yet during the reign of the Evil Emperor Bushitler II, this was one claim they never made.
I guess to you Progressive Leftists the 14th Amendment (equal protection) is now being interpreted as justifying “protection racket” (“Nice little group you’ve got there, shame if anything happened to it.”)
“Is that today’s talking point? To justify and excuse the IRS?”
You have to remember that every time the IRS audits someone or seizes someone’s property, State-shtuppin’ Jim squeeeeealls with delight!
Oh yeah right….like demanding that an applicant reveal what is in their prayers is merely determining if the applicant ‘s organization is engaging in political campaign activity
And that’s only one example of that. And those sorts of questions were equally asked of the Lefty groups applying for the same status I’m sure.
(/sarc)
Why Jim you make an excellent point.
So why was the IRS not also looking just as hard and progressive groups seeking 501(c)4 status ?
Why did at least one group have it’s application granted in record time, with tax exempt status backdated even though the applicant did not request it ?
Jim,
Do you believe all of the questions sent to the targeted organizations were appropriate questions given the status the organizations were applying for, and were per applicable IRS guidelines and regulations?
BlueMoon
Of course he does. Remember who you’re talking to.
Guys, don’t bother arguing with Jim. His God is the Revolutionary State, and trying to talk him out of believing in the Revolutionary State and the salvation it supposedly offers is like trying to talk a Muslim out of believing in Allah and Mohammed His Prophet. There is literally nothing the Revolutionary State can do — short of banning abortion, permitting school prayer, or letting people who own lunch counters serve whomever they damned well please — that Jim does not believe in.
The Revolutionary State is a jealous god, and its followers must strike down unbelievers wherever they stand, consequences be damned. I mean, look at Franklin D. Roosevelt, the King David of the American Revolutionary State. He didn’t mess around taxing all those West Coast Japanese. He locked Americans up in concentration camps. Do you think Jim and his fellow believers gives a damn if the IRS goes after the gun nuts, Jesus believers, and tax protesters?
If you do, you’re fooling yourselves. Believe it: given the correct circumstances, Jim and his fellow believers would lock every man jack of us up in camps.
If we didn’t have the guns, of course — which is why we must never give up the guns.
What you folks don’t seem to realize is that Jim and his kind are not playing some debating-society game of politics here. They don’t give a tinker’s damn about your arguments, your evidence, or your logic. This is their religion, and those who oppose their God (the State) are evil. Fairness, equality under the law, civil liberties — all are irrelevant. Jim and his fellow believers are fighting evil, and when you’re fighting evil, anything goes.
“Guys, don’t bother arguing with Jim.”
Agree with you that arguing with Jim and his hard-core Left pals will not change their minds, but that’s not a good reason to stop doing it. If we stop calling them out, they win the debate by default, and that could sway some more folks to their way of thinking. I don’t have time to find the exact quote and who first said it, but this is a close approximation: All that evil needs to triumph is the silence of good men.
B. Lewis, I completely agree with your characterization of Jim and his pals, and for that reason, we must argue back, and if necessary fight back.
BlueMoon
Thanks for the support, but my point is that when it comes to Jim and those who believe as he does, there is no argument to win, that there is no debate to be had. A debate requires evidence and a judge. An argument implies the possibility of one party changing his or her mind. For the Revolutionary, for those in the Cult of the State, there can be neither. Do you really think there is any evidence, any sort of reasoning, that could cause Jim to say, “Hmm. You’re right. I stand corrected.” Of course not! Jesus Christ Almighty Himself could come down and remonstrate with them and it wouldn’t change their minds. Proof: He did just that!
Jim and the rest of the Revolutionary mob aren’t interested in evidence, accept no judge but their own individual egos, and cannot be persuaded to accept another point of view by the use of logic. They are not “doing” politics any more. This is a religion for them. In their view,they know the truth; there is therefore no need to debate anything. When you “know” the truth, as Jim and company do, you no longer need to argue. Anyone against the truth is obviously evil, right? You don’t waste time arguing with the Forces of Evil. You simply dispense with them. Once they eliminate the evil ones (i.e. you and me), once the “haters” and “bitter clingers”, and recalcitrant sheepdogs are done away with, they can then arrange a mind-control regime in which the sheep can be easily compelled to amble peacefully to the slaughterhouse.
We are done with debate, with argument, with politics. We are at war, and we’d better wake up to that fact.
Yes, there is a war in the USA. Here’s a scary take about the expansion of the battlefield, and the weapons being employed there, by one faction in that war:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/06/03/is-obama-waging-psychological-warfare-on-americans/
Yes, but remember that there likely are several people who lurk on this board without ever posting. While we may never convince the state fellators like Jim, if we refuse to refute them, then we lose by default.
To those like Jim who don’t see the danger of this issue, just remember that political pendulums swing. Never grant a power to your side that you wouldn’t want turned against you by the opposition when they regain power. This type of IRS abuse, left unchallenged, becomes legal precedent.
After watching the first two Godfather movies this weekend (for the first time), I’m wondering if there’s any Obama-related lessons I should take from the experience…
Al – just now seeing them? Wow that is deferred pleasure to the max, man.
As Tom Hanks said in the movie, “Youve Got Mail”, the Godfather is the font of all knowledge:
Obama making Hillary his Sec.of State: “Keep your friends close; and your enemies closer.”
Then there’s the other classics:
“Leave the gun; take the cannoli.”
“Oh Paulie…you won’t be seeing him no more.” ( he’s under the bus)
“It’s not personal Sonny; it’s business.”
You never leave the cannoli.
The third movie is also worth seeing.
A union buy in?
Obama met with the head of the IRS union the day before this reportedly started. Just one of the many, many coincidences, I suppose.
Last I heard the IRS head met with Obama even more than 118 times. Far more than any other federal official. Maybe they are holding bi-weekly Easter egg rolls at the white house?
My opinion of this scandal hasn’t changed at all; I still think we’re seeing the tip of the iceberg.
Tip of the iceberg is an understatement. What’s amazing is that people don’t realize this is standard operating procedure for the left. To this day they don’t understand it. They aren’t called the evil and dumb parties for no reason.
It’s ironic that the left bitches about fair and the right is the only side that tries to be fair. Fair is not part of the left’s playbook. Journolist wasn’t an aberration. Cooperation between entities that shouldn’t be political is not an aberration. The IRS being used for political purpose is no different from any other government office. The left uses them all for political purpose. Did the Clintons use their buddy to collect info from the FBI? Was that an aberration?
Why are the right’s candidates always the ones the left wants to run against? You think that’s a coincidence? They will never allow another Ronald Reagan anywhere near the WH. What did Michael Reagan say about Sarah? She’s my father!
They’ve got their playbook so well down they don’t even need all the behind the scenes collaboration, but you will always see them doing it and denying it.
When will we effectively counter this? How will we? Will we let it continue until only a 2nd amendment option is left?
There’s a Keith Laumer “Bolo” joke in here somewhere.
I keep thinking of Niven’s ARM. Except these clowns would consider dihydrogen monoxide dangerous enough to ban. Er, in more than just farming valleys.
What nobody seems to be asking is this:
The IRS will be administering Obamacare, along with the HHS. They have already demonstrated that political affiliation determines how you will be treated. Will medically necessary procedures be delayed/denied based on your personal politics? Should I now re-register as a Democrat?
Tony,
Lots of people are asking this. Unfortunately very few are in the MSM. And of course we have roughly 50% of the people in the country like Jim who cover their ears and scream lalalalala as loudly as they know how.
Imagine the shock when one of those people are denied treatment and told to take the red pill.
Will we have auditors coming down n us asking us to prove that the treatment we received was warranted? If if we cannot prove that, will we then have our wages garnished until the costs are recouped?
Oh it’s going to be a dandy time if the IRS oversees Obama-non-care