Rand, Gunwalker is at best a page 5 story (which is where it was in today’s Chicago Tribune). The reason for that is simple – we do stuff like this all the time.
Gunwalker was a program to let low-level crooks commit low-level crimes in order to get evidence on higher-level crooks. This is something that’s done all the time. Typically it’s by getting a low-level drug dealer to rat out his supplier, or a mob enforcer to wear a wire when he meets the boss.
In this particular case it was done incompetently, which is why it got stopped and it’s in the news. The operation wasn’t fundamentally illegal or even unusual. Obama is also insulated in that Kenneth Melman is an Acting Director, who got his job because the last Presidential appointee quit.
Oh, and I should add that Gunrunner started in 2006, as can be seen in the linked file from August, 2008. It could be seen as yet another Bush mess for Obama to clean up.
Chris, you are mixing up Gunrunner with Operation Fast and Furious. The former was legal, the latter was not.
Gunrunner started in 06 but the guns didn’t walk over the border (Gunwalker) till 09.
I see it as a mess wholly of Obama’s making.
This is something that’s done all the time. Typically it’s by getting a low-level drug dealer to rat out his supplier, or a mob enforcer to wear a wire when he meets the boss.
,,,,except the small, pesky little problem of the enforcer and boss meet outside your jurisdiction where you cannot, follow, trace, observe or arrest them….in other words, what is the fucking point of it exactly? It is Underpaints Gnome logic. The logic of a hard-core Meth Addict but not the logic of a Law Enforcement Professional.
If it isn’t criminal, it is certainly amazingly incompetent to the point you want to test people for cretinism and lead ingestion.
Ken,
The Donkey Party talking points are to deliberately confuse the two. Chris knows what he is doing as many times as we have went over this here.
Chris, aside from mistaking Gunrunner’s attempt to stop US guns from falling into the hands of narco-terrorists with Fast and Furious’s attempt to supply thousands of US guns to narco-terrorists, why would Bush try to invent an excuse to enhance US gun control? He doesn’t like gun control, and the whole point of Fast and Furious was to falsely implicate US gun stores as supporting Mexican drug cartels, all to justify more restrictions on private US gun buyers.
Combine that with the FBI’s collusion in the program, the State Department and CIA supplying guns to the Zetas, the DOJ stonewalling, and now the admission that the program was known to the White House, and you’ve got a scandal that’s worse than Iran Contra and Watergate combined.
I swear to PETE, if they caught Obama, flailing a 4 y/o boy, with wet noodles, the kid was naked and covered in chocolate sauce and Obama had dill pickles stuck in his…yeah huh, Chris G. would defend him with,
“…but, but, but, BUSH did it with a THREEEEEEE year old GIRL, but then he had all the detectives who found him with that girl killed and then, he, he, he ordered all the records burned in a rocket to the SUN!! And, and, and…he had a HUGE a ZUCHINNI IN HIS…yeah huh……NOT just a pickle!!!!!!!!!!”
Chris, man oh man, can you just ONCE defend the current WH with something from TODAY!!!? Defend what you see as right about the man and his policies with facts or proof or even just YOUR OWN opinion. Stop comparing him to Bush. First and foremost, many of us found fault with Bush TOOOOOOO! Especially on the economy and border control for example.
And comparison of stupidity or wrongdoing isn’t defense or explanation in any case. Just because the guy who used to own my present house used to steal from the neighbors, does NOT make it OK for ME to steal from them. Wrong is wrong, you can’t defend wrong like a 2nd grader with his hand in a cookie jar.
“…but, but, but, Schtumpy did it FIRST!!!!!”
Grow UP!
AAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
please leave chris alone. he’s part of the “unreality based communists”
Am I the only one who has considered that the shipment of guns to Mexican drug lords might not be the whole scandal? That there might be a quid pro quo?
That, in fact, a massacre of American citizens may already be in the works, planned out by the Obama administration as a means to finally achieve gun confiscation?
Are we sure that Obama isn’t Jim Carrey in his Riddler outfit mind controlling the media?
I watched the latest Issa committee meeting on C-Span tonight, and it was revelatory and colorful. I think all the hearings are accessible via YouTube. Newell came off as stone-faced and evasive, weirdly trying to sell the notion that the initial concept for the operation was suggested by a group of low level ATF personnel, and that he was gob-smacked to learn, extremely belatedly, that the agents on the line were not happy about what was going on. Rep. Dan Burton and several others latched onto him like bulldogs.
Eleanor Holmes Norton was there to campaign for gun control and slam Republicans, conservatives, and Rep. Issa in particular. The other Dems used their time well, but one can only be astonished by the number of witless wonders they’ve inserted in the ATF, FBI, DEA, and Justice Dept., etc. to take charge of our national security.
one can only be astonished by the number of witless wonders they’ve inserted in the ATF, FBI, DEA, and Justice Dept., etc. to take charge of our national security.
Given this from danae, I would answer ken anthony‘s question with, “Who needs mind control where there are no minds?”
They’re new catchphrase… “A mind is a terrible thing to have.”
They’ve made it so that loyalty to your own country is disqualifying for employment. Stupid is relative, buy patriot should be a requirement. With the right leadership, even stupid people can be a valuable controllable asset. They won’t do everything right, but can at least be herded in the right general direction. These idiots are actively trying to destroy this country.
Patriotism can override reason. But the lack of either isn’t a formula for success.
Rand, Gunwalker is at best a page 5 story (which is where it was in today’s Chicago Tribune). The reason for that is simple – we do stuff like this all the time.
Gunwalker was a program to let low-level crooks commit low-level crimes in order to get evidence on higher-level crooks. This is something that’s done all the time. Typically it’s by getting a low-level drug dealer to rat out his supplier, or a mob enforcer to wear a wire when he meets the boss.
In this particular case it was done incompetently, which is why it got stopped and it’s in the news. The operation wasn’t fundamentally illegal or even unusual. Obama is also insulated in that Kenneth Melman is an Acting Director, who got his job because the last Presidential appointee quit.
Oh, and I should add that Gunrunner started in 2006, as can be seen in the linked file from August, 2008. It could be seen as yet another Bush mess for Obama to clean up.
Chris, you are mixing up Gunrunner with Operation Fast and Furious. The former was legal, the latter was not.
Gunrunner started in 06 but the guns didn’t walk over the border (Gunwalker) till 09.
I see it as a mess wholly of Obama’s making.
This is something that’s done all the time. Typically it’s by getting a low-level drug dealer to rat out his supplier, or a mob enforcer to wear a wire when he meets the boss.
,,,,except the small, pesky little problem of the enforcer and boss meet outside your jurisdiction where you cannot, follow, trace, observe or arrest them….in other words, what is the fucking point of it exactly? It is Underpaints Gnome logic. The logic of a hard-core Meth Addict but not the logic of a Law Enforcement Professional.
If it isn’t criminal, it is certainly amazingly incompetent to the point you want to test people for cretinism and lead ingestion.
Ken,
The Donkey Party talking points are to deliberately confuse the two. Chris knows what he is doing as many times as we have went over this here.
Chris, aside from mistaking Gunrunner’s attempt to stop US guns from falling into the hands of narco-terrorists with Fast and Furious’s attempt to supply thousands of US guns to narco-terrorists, why would Bush try to invent an excuse to enhance US gun control? He doesn’t like gun control, and the whole point of Fast and Furious was to falsely implicate US gun stores as supporting Mexican drug cartels, all to justify more restrictions on private US gun buyers.
Combine that with the FBI’s collusion in the program, the State Department and CIA supplying guns to the Zetas, the DOJ stonewalling, and now the admission that the program was known to the White House, and you’ve got a scandal that’s worse than Iran Contra and Watergate combined.
I swear to PETE, if they caught Obama, flailing a 4 y/o boy, with wet noodles, the kid was naked and covered in chocolate sauce and Obama had dill pickles stuck in his…yeah huh, Chris G. would defend him with,
“…but, but, but, BUSH did it with a THREEEEEEE year old GIRL, but then he had all the detectives who found him with that girl killed and then, he, he, he ordered all the records burned in a rocket to the SUN!! And, and, and…he had a HUGE a ZUCHINNI IN HIS…yeah huh……NOT just a pickle!!!!!!!!!!”
Chris, man oh man, can you just ONCE defend the current WH with something from TODAY!!!? Defend what you see as right about the man and his policies with facts or proof or even just YOUR OWN opinion. Stop comparing him to Bush. First and foremost, many of us found fault with Bush TOOOOOOO! Especially on the economy and border control for example.
And comparison of stupidity or wrongdoing isn’t defense or explanation in any case. Just because the guy who used to own my present house used to steal from the neighbors, does NOT make it OK for ME to steal from them. Wrong is wrong, you can’t defend wrong like a 2nd grader with his hand in a cookie jar.
“…but, but, but, Schtumpy did it FIRST!!!!!”
Grow UP!
AAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
please leave chris alone. he’s part of the “unreality based communists”
Der Schtumpy, that’s already been noticed:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/media-having-trouble-finding-right-angle-on-obamas,2703/
Am I the only one who has considered that the shipment of guns to Mexican drug lords might not be the whole scandal? That there might be a quid pro quo?
That, in fact, a massacre of American citizens may already be in the works, planned out by the Obama administration as a means to finally achieve gun confiscation?
Are we sure that Obama isn’t Jim Carrey in his Riddler outfit mind controlling the media?
I watched the latest Issa committee meeting on C-Span tonight, and it was revelatory and colorful. I think all the hearings are accessible via YouTube. Newell came off as stone-faced and evasive, weirdly trying to sell the notion that the initial concept for the operation was suggested by a group of low level ATF personnel, and that he was gob-smacked to learn, extremely belatedly, that the agents on the line were not happy about what was going on. Rep. Dan Burton and several others latched onto him like bulldogs.
Eleanor Holmes Norton was there to campaign for gun control and slam Republicans, conservatives, and Rep. Issa in particular. The other Dems used their time well, but one can only be astonished by the number of witless wonders they’ve inserted in the ATF, FBI, DEA, and Justice Dept., etc. to take charge of our national security.
Given this from danae, I would answer ken anthony‘s question with, “Who needs mind control where there are no minds?”
They’re new catchphrase… “A mind is a terrible thing to have.”
They’ve made it so that loyalty to your own country is disqualifying for employment. Stupid is relative, buy patriot should be a requirement. With the right leadership, even stupid people can be a valuable controllable asset. They won’t do everything right, but can at least be herded in the right general direction. These idiots are actively trying to destroy this country.
Patriotism can override reason. But the lack of either isn’t a formula for success.