Media Criticism, Political Commentary, War Commentary

Those Violent Lutherans

72 Comments

There has been a bombing and terrorist attack in Oslo, Norway.

Anyone want to make book on what the religion was of the people who did it? Or that when it’s revealed, the chin pullers in the media will tie themselves into knots trying to figure out why they’d do such a thing, and that it must be just a sad coincidence?

[Update a few minutes later]

Here’s more from ABC News. We can be sure that these tragic events had nothing to do with this:

Earlier this month, a Norwegian prosecutor filed terrorism charges against an Iraqi-born cleric who had allegedly threatened the lives of Norwegian politicians. Mullah Krekar, the founder of the Kurdish Islamist group Ansar al-Islam, said in a news conference in 2010 that if he was deported from Norway he would be killed and, therefore, Norwegian politicians deserved the same fate, according to an AP report. The Norwegian government had considered deporting Krekar because he was seen as a national security threat.

I mean, that would just be crazy talk.

[Update at noon]

Twenty to twenty-five dead at a youth camp.

Barbarians. Actually, that’s an insult to barbarians.

72 thoughts on “Those Violent Lutherans”

  1. What kind of weekend are you going to have that a simple statement of fact “set you up for it”?

    The kind where I’m going to think about what you said at about 15:00 Sunday while I’m mowing the lawn and really chuckle while I haul the lawn mower up the 50 degree incline of my front lawn because I can’t believe you said that and actually believe it’s relevant.

    Oh, and, reading the news… yeah, those Lutherans… scary dudes… I guess he might not be a Christian, but it doesn’t much look like he’s a Muslim.

    Retraction Rand?

    Thought not.

    I bought some popcorn so I can enjoy this weekend’s Republican bloodletting too, because if the polls stay this way it’s going to be fun.

    Have I mentioned I’m enjoying this?

  2. @wodun – David Copeland in the UK springs to mind. He attacked immigrant areas and a gay pub – ironically killing the straight people drinking there.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Copeland

    It’s not unheard of in Europe nor the US.

    Of course, I assume that Copeland and all the others are part of the grand plan for a caliphate…

  4. why did a jihadist organization claim responsibility

    Wow! Let me think about that for about 10 seconds… nah, that was too long.

    Seriously… what IS the world like inside your head????

  5. Oh and while I’m on a roll… I’m sure News International/News Corps will have something to make you all feel better. 🙂

    Seriously, this has been fun, and I actually do wish I was surprised at this thread.

  6. Amazingly, the shooter may indeed be a violent Lutheran. The police are describing him as a Christian fundamentalist.

  8. “Bill, defense against what? Against jumping to conclusions?”

    No Bob, the liberal trope that the “right wing” is just as bad as the Islamists. You can’t be this obtuse unless it’s willful.

  9. Retraction Rand?

    What is it that I need to retract? Having trouble reading again?

    Have I mentioned I’m enjoying this?

    Yes, you’ve demonstrated your illness in the past. No need to remind us.

  10. Oh, I see, yes, you’re right: I think the “right wing” is only as bad as “the Muslims”, which is to say that the overwhelming majority of them are nice people who I can live alongside, even though many of them (but not all) have screwy ideas. There is no way I would ever think the “right wing” is just as bad as Islamist terrorists, just as I would never think that typical Muslims are just as bad as violent right wing extremists.

    Some Muslims believe in democracy, the rule of law, the equality of women (at least to the extent that Catholics do), freedom of religion, and so forth, and some right wingers don’t. Arguing about ratios is silly: it is better to meet people and judge them as individuals.

  11. Bob-1: well written (your 6:31 am).

    Far-right violence is nothing new to Europe. The US news media tend to ignore it, after all we have far more fascinating things to cover, like the antics of drunken film stars.

    I am very upset that such a wonderful nation has been attacked like this. Norway is a fantastic place. But their society does have quite a few isolated loners (mostly male) and weird stuff does occur.
    Nothing this bad, however.

    There is a clear political motive in this horror. The Labor government was targeted for assassination, and that youth camp was a political training retreat for young Labor members.

    Now we’ll see if another shoe drops, and whether this guy really was a loner, or if this is part of something larger. (No, I’m not claiming that is true. Has to be checked out.)

  12. Topic: 80+ people killed in Norway.

    Daveon: AWESOME DUDE! That’s set me up for the weekend!

    Daveon: Have I mentioned I’m enjoying this?

    Daveon: Rand – again, awesome dude. This has been fun.

    Daveon: Seriously, this has been fun

    A few years ago, Daveon wished my wife to get cancer. Now he gets excited about the murder of 80 people. Daveon is a fucking sick bastard.

  13. A girl on the island has a blog post.

    Cleaned-up the translation a bit:

    I woke up. I can not sleep more. I’m sitting in the living room. Feeling grief, anger, happiness, God, I do not know what. There are too many emotions. There are too many thoughts. I’m afraid. I react to the slightest sound. I will write about what happened on Utøya. What my eyes saw, what I felt, what I did. The words come straight from the liver, but I would also anonymize many names out of respect for my friends.

    We had a crisis meeting in the main building after the explosions in Oslo. After that there was a meeting for members of Akershus and Oslo. After the meetings were many, many people around and in the main building. We consoled ourselves that we were safe on an island. No one knew that hell would break out with us too.

    I stood in the main time when panic broke out. I heard shots. I saw him shoot. All started to run. The first thought was: “Why is the police shooting on us? What the hell? “I ran into the little room. People ran. Screamed. I was scared. I managed to get into one of the rooms at the back of the building. We were many in there. We lay on the floor all together. We heard several shots. Were more afraid. I cried. I knew nothing. I saw my best friend through the window and wondered if I should go out and bring him to me. I did not. I saw fear in his eyes. We were lying on the floor inside the room for a few minutes. We agreed not to let in more people, in case the killer came. We heard several shots and decided to jump out the window. Panic broke out among us. All in the room rushed to the window and tried to jump out. I was the last and thought: “I am the last to jump out the window. Now I’m dying. I’m sure, but it might be okay, then I know that the others are safe. “I threw my bag out the window. Tried to manage down, but lost my grip. I landed hard on the left part of the body. A boy helped me up. We ran into the woods. I looked around. “Is he here? Is he shooting on me? Can he see me? “A girl had a broken ankle. Another was severely injured. I tried to help a little bit before I went down to the water. I sought cover behind a sort of brick wall. We were many. I prayed, prayed, prayed. I hope that God saw me. I called Mom and said that it was not certain we ​​would meet again, but that I would do everything to get away. I said several times that I loved her. I heard fear in her voice. She cried. It hurt. I sent a text message to my dad, told him I loved him. I sent a text message to another person I like very, very much. We had a little contact. I sent a text message to my best friend. He did not answer. We heard several shots. Snuggled together. Did everything we could to keep warm. There were so many thoughts. I was so scared. My dad called me. I cried, said I loved him. He said he was going with my brother to take welcome me when I come across to the mainland, or they came to the island. There were so many emotions. So many thoughts. I told everything I could. It took some time. The other called their parents and eventually all started texting for fear that the killer would hear us. I thought of my sister who’s away. How I would tell her how it went? What happened to me. I updated on Twitter and Facebook that I was still alive and that I was “safe.” I wrote that I was waiting for the police. People jumped into the water, started swimming. I lay down. I decided that if he came, I would play dead. I would not run or swim. I can not describe the fear, all the thoughts, what I felt.

    A man came. “I’m from the police.” I kept lying down. Some shouted back that he had to prove it. I do not remember exactly what he said, but the killer started shooting. He loaded. Shot more. He shot those around me. I was lying. I thought: “Now it’s over. He’s here. He takes me. Now I’m dying. “People screamed. I heard that others were shot. Others jumped into the water. I was there. The mobile phone in hand. I lay on top of the legs of a girl. Two others were on top of my leg. I was lying. I received text messages. The mobile phone rang several times. I was lying. I played dead. I lay there for at least an hour. It was completely quiet. I gently turned my head to see if I could see someone alive. I saw dead bodies. I saw blood. Fear. I decided to get up. I had been lying on top of a dead body. Two dead bodies lay on top of me. I had a guardian angel.

    I did not know if he would come back again. I had not the courage to look at all those who had called and texted me. I hurried down to the water. I took off my sweater. It was big. I thought it would be difficult to swim to me. I considered whether I should bring my cell phone or leave it again. I put it in the back pocket and jumped into the water. I saw several others in the water. They had swum far. I saw that someone had gathered around an inflatable boat or something like that. There were many who picked up those who swam out. I swam, swam, and swam towards the air thing. I screamed. Cried. Was cold. I thought of when I would drown. It was heavier and heavier. I prayed. I continued. Was tired arms. Decided to turn on my back and just use the legs to swim on. I sank. I started to swim normally again. A little while I thought they had gathered around the air boat began to move away. I screamed. Begged them to wait for me. I must have seen visions. I swam at least a few hundred meters before I arrived. We talked a little together. Told what we were called, where we came from. When the boats passed us we shouting for help, but they picked up the others in the water first. A man in a boat came to us. He threw out several life jackets. I got hold of one. Got it on me. I held on to the small air boat a long time until the same man came back to pick us up. All got into it. He began to go towards the shore. After a while his small boat started to take in some water. I did everything I could to get the most water out. I used a bucket. I was exhausted. Another girl in the boat took over. We came to the mainland. We got blankets. Tears pressed on. I cried more. A woman hugged me. It was so good. I wept aloud. I sobbed. A man lent me his phone. I called my dad, “I live. I did it. Now I am safe. “I hung up. Cried more. We had to walk a bit. Completely unknown people took us into their cars and drove us to Sundvollen hotel. I ran in to see if I could see my best friend. I saw him at any place. I saw a friend. I cried loudly. We hugged each other for long. It was good. I walked around, looking for friends. My heart pounded. I cried more. I signed up with the police, then through all the lists. I did not know if my best friend lived. I looked through all the lists. I could not find his name anywhere. I was scared. I got a blanket. I took off my wet socks. I was half naked. Got a jacket. I tried to dial a bit. Contacted my parents again. My dad and brother were on their way to fetch me. I drank some cocoa. I sat down. Thought. Cried. Saw many friends. Hugged them. Cried. I borrowed a computer. Updated the Facebook and Twitter again that I was safe. I was at the hotel for several hours before my family came. I looked for familiar people. I talked to a priest. I told all I had seen. It was a good talk. A man from the Red Cross saw all my wounds. Cleanse them. Time passed. I was with some of my friends. All talked about the same. How we survived. What had happened. I asked several if they had seen my best friend. No one had seen him. I was scared. I thought that it was my fault because we had not managed to stay together. A friend got the key to a hotel room. We sat there, looked at the news. There was anger, sorrow, so many emotions. My dad called, they had come. I took the elevator down. Run out to them. Hugged my brother and my dad a long time. I cried aloud. My brother was crying too. It was a good moment. I saw a boy who looked like my best friend. I shouted his name. He turned around. It was him. We hugged each other for long. Both crying, we asked each other how we had managed. After a while, I registered myself and we drove home. Someone else sat in with us. My best friend was with me. His brother had come to me with his best friend. There were several who had gathered at my home. They would not go home until they had seen that I was fine. We talked a little bit. I drank a juice Gladden. Ate a yogurt. Talked some more with my mom and my family. I called my best friend. It was a good call. She said: “I was not sure if I would ever get this phone.” Tears pressed on. We talked a little bit. After that I lay. It was three. Mom refused to let me sleep alone, so we slept together.

    There have been several hours since all this happened. I’m still in shock. Everything has not fallen in. I have seen the corpses of my friends. Several of my friends are missing. I am glad that I can swim. I am glad that I live. For that God watched over me. There are so many emotions, so many thoughts. I think of all the relatives. In all I lost. In the hell that is and was on the island. This summer’s most beautiful fairy tale is transformed into Norway’s worst nightmare.

    Have I mentioned I’m enjoying this?

    Yes, many times, you sick fuck.

  14. Not only wasn’t the terrorist an Islamist, but he posted on political blogs exactly the sort of anti-multicultralist anti-Muslim screeds found here. His posted comments match comments found here nearly word for word. His actions don’t logically discredit his views (the views many of you share), but there is an irony pertaining to this blog, and I’m quite sure that irony is all Daveon was enjoying.

  15. there is an irony pertaining to this blog

    That word doesn’t mean what you think it means. No one here made any assumption about the identity of the perp(s) that wasn’t first made by the international news services or the Norwegian authorities themselves, nor has anyone here (with the possible exception of Dave) advocated or cheered-on terrorism.

  16. And I’m quite sure he’s still a sickening asshole. And that the world would be a better place if his lawn mower slipped down his front lawn and landed on him.

    Not only wasn’t the terrorist an Islamist

    I guess you taught us all a lesson there bob. The next time there is a bombing we’ll immediately reject the idea that jihad has anything to do with it.

    And obviously if Norway had a greater population of muslims none of this would have happened.

  17. What is it that I need to retract?

    How about:

    If that’s the case [if the gunman is an ethnic Norwegian], either it’s a bizarre coincidence that these two events would occur simultaneously, or he’s a convert.

    It’s no coincidence, and he’s no convert.

  18. Actually, since all the news we’re getting is coming from the oh-so-accurate-and-impartial professional news media, I think we should take anything that’s being “reported” about the interests and activities of the suspect with a grain of salt. The lesson about jumping to conclusions (I mean, this just happened yesterday) goes both ways. Right now, the only thing that is certain, is a bunch of people were murdered, and they have a suspect in custody with blond hair.

  19. Well I am going on record as being extremely angry as this sick bastard that perpetrated this atrocity and I 100% denounce his nationalist ideals, bigoted attitudes, and most importantly his murderous actions. Whatever it is that he may have said or the opinions he expressed as a “nationlist” or whatever have no bearing whatsoever on the principles of which I believe in which are: the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Any person, no matter how they have self described or label themselves politically losses all credence either way once they commit murder and purposefully defy the rights imbued to man by nature and God. This insane man is not a right winger/conservative/libertarian in my mind. He lost that privilege the moment this sick scheme even popped into his head. And unlike many Muslims who refuse to denounce the violently fanatical aspects of Islam or the leftists who continually find excuses for an ideology that has massacred millions; I say this guy should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, exiled to the North Pole with nothing but his underwear and a can of tuna (no opener), and forever more used as a poster child of precisely what a so called “right-winger” not ought to be.

  20. It’s no coincidence, and he’s no convert.

    If that’s all, it’s a pretty trivial retraction. The reasonable working assumption at the time, given the Jihadists’ claims, was that the bombing was their work.

  21. On a tangent, how many lives might have been saved had people been prepared to resist the gunman with deadly force?

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