Philosophy, Political Commentary, Social Commentary

If A Man Murdered Thousands In The Name Of Christ

51 Comments

…would we give him a Christian burial? While I’m not a Christian, I would think that Christians would object.

I don’t think it helps the so-called “moderate Muslims” to “follow Islamic traditions” with respect to this monster. He should have been fed to the hogs.

[Update mid afternoon]

I’m listening to Glenn Beck, and he’s channeling me. He says he’s already spoken to Muslim friends who are appalled that this happened.

Also, I’ll have a piece up at Pajamas Media on this subject later today.

51 thoughts on “If A Man Murdered Thousands In The Name Of Christ”

  1. There’s no reason to do -that-.

    “Lying in state” is traditional. Do that.

    Near both a bald eagle hangout and a company of Marines with RoE ‘free fire zone, just please don’t shoot the birds.’ Advertise that any country or organization that would like to host the remains is welcome to attempt pickup.

  2. “You need at least sixteen pigs to finish the job in one sitting, so be wary of any man who keeps a pig farm. They will go through a body that weighs 200 pounds in about eight minutes. That means that a single pig can consume two pounds of uncooked flesh every minute. Hence the expression, ‘as greedy as a pig’.”

  3. What this shows is that the U.S. is not going to stoop to their level of behavior. Unlike other countries the U.S. has traditionally held itself to higher moral values on the battle field and this is exactly in that tradition.

    This is a diplomatic coup for the U.S. internationally in the war on terror that caps well the raid that killed him, even thought the usual suspects will berate the President for it.

    Also burying the body at sea means there is no grave site for his followers to worship.

  5. The issue isn’t whether he is evil, but whether or not he is a Christian. Is someone who murders in the name of Christ a Christian? The “moderate” Muslims are always telling me that bin Laden and Al Qaeda aren’t acting in accordance with Islam. If so, then why treat them as members of the religion? Doing so undermines the “moderates'” claims.

  6. What this shows is that the U.S. is not going to stoop to their level of behavior.

    I, for one, am glad that people in the United States haven’t taken to the streets to chant and shoot guns into the air and sing and dance and celebrate the death of someone in a foreign countr-

    Wait, what’s that?

    Oh, never mind…

  7. What this shows is that the U.S. is not going to stoop to their level of behavior.

    Also burying the body at sea means there is no grave site for his followers to worship.

    AP CAIRO: Muslim clerics said Monday that Osama bin Laden’s burial at sea was a violation of Islamic tradition that may further provoke militant calls for revenge attacks against American targets.

    Again Matula, stop with the lecturing, particularly when you don’t know about what you are talking.

  8. Thomas Matula Says:

    “……..even thought the usual suspects will berate the President for it.”

    What a bitter guy….so far the responses on all venues (including this one) seem to be pretty supportive of the actions, and congratulatory of the President*.

    If you think conservatives never say anything positive about the Prez, it might be because you refuse to see it.

    *
    (“…and congratulatory of the President” – that cannot possibly be proper English…)

  9. “Also burying the body at sea means there is no grave site for his followers to worship.”

    A cesspool of pig excrement serves the same purpose, and will provide “Green” energy and delicious pork products. A lost opportunity.

    Imagine the prices you could fetch for the pigs that ate Osama Bin Laden.

  10. Of course, the “wrongness” of the at-sea burial presupposes that OBL wasn’t taken alive and later executed aboard a ship.

    I have little reason to believe that the details surrounding the actions taken in a joint operation between the CIA and the Navy SEALS would would ever be fully or accurately released to the public, and I don’t necessarily think that they should be, either.

  11. Leland,

    Learn to READ. No where did I say it was within Islamic traditions. Rand is the one that implied that.

    I simply stated it was a good decision to treat it with respect as is the American tradition.

    However you might find this enlightening.

    http://www.seaservices.com/Muslim.htm

    [[[623. * If a person dies on a ship and if there is no fear of the decay of the dead body and if there is no problem in retaining it for sometime on the ship, it should be kept on it and buried in the ground after reaching the land. Otherwise, after giving Ghusl, Hunut, Kafan and Namaz-e-Mayyit it should be lowered into the sea in a vessel of clay or with a weight tied to its feet. And as far as possible it should not be lowered at a point where it is eaten up immediately by the sea predators.

    624. If it is feared that an enemy may dig up the grave and exhume the dead body and amputate its ears or nose or other limbs, it should be lowered into sea, if possible, as stated in the foregoing rule. ]]]

    I am sure if buried on land there would be repeated calls to dig him up for “further testing” . This ends that possibility, as well as not providing a place for his followers to turn into a shrine. So again, its a good decision by the President.

    But of course radical clerics will find issue with it. They will find issue no matter what is done or said. This is for the non-radicals who make up the bulk of the Islamic population.

  12. Gregg,

    You seem to be misreading the title of this thread.

    [[[If A Man Murdered Thousands In The Name Of Christ

    …would we give him a Christian burial? While I’m not a Christian, I would think that Christians would object.]]]

  13. Thomas Matula Says:

    “You seem to be misreading the title of this thread.”

    You seem to have NOT read any of my comment wherein I didn’t comment on this at all:

    “…would we give him a Christian burial? While I’m not a Christian, I would think that Christians would object.]]]”

    But specifically excised your comment about “….usual suspects will berate the President for it….”

    And commented only on that.

  14. Matula,

    Perhaps you should take up your issue with the Muslim clerics in Egypt. I linked to them. I mentioned nothing about you claiming it followed Islamic tradition. It is hilarious though, after whining about the fake injustice; you then decide to lecture on how the burial does follow Islamic tradition.

  15. If they are objecting to Osama’s burial at sea being a desecration, then they must think he did something ‘Heaven Worthy’ in life he is being derpived of.

    Anyone who thinks that is not a moderate Muslim at all but a radical and our enemy.

  17. Leland,

    You implied it. But then what should I expect from a troll too cowardly to put his full name on his comments?

  20. You want to start moving some of the late popes out of St Peters then?

    The short answer to your question would be yes, and you’d probably have no problem finding a priest, certainly a catholic one, to do it.

    Religion can be weird that way.

  21. As for the usual suspect berating the President….

    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/tea-party-nation-obama-only-killed-bin-laden-help-his-reelection

    Tea Party Nation: Obama Only Killed Bin Laden To Help His Reelection
    Submitted by Brian on May 2, 2011 – 6:42am

    [[[Judson Phillips, the head of Tea Party Nation, said that the death of Osama bin Laden happened in spite of President Barack Obama and criticized the President for announcing the breaking news during Donald Trump’s “Celebrity Apprentice.” Phillips suggested that Obama did not want to give the order to raid bin Laden’s compound but if he “did not act, it would have killed any chance he had at reelection.”

    The Tea Party leader went on to criticize the administration for quickly burying the body, saying that “we should have told everyone that the body was wrapped in pig fat before burial,” claiming that bin Laden “represent[s] the mainstream of Islam”:]]]

    I know, the Tea Party Nation is not the “official” spokes group for the Tea Party, but until they get organized and have one I will regard them as representative as Fox News…

  23. I’ve noticed that Matula seems to be complaining about what people are writing here while not actually reading or comprehending what they wrote.

  25. “I know, the Tea Party Nation is not the “official” spokes group for the Tea Party, but until they get organized and have one I will regard them as representative as Fox News…”

    No problem Thomas, we’ll regard DKos as representative of all “Progressives”

    Then there’s this from the MSM.

    As JWF says, that had to hurt.

  27. Question here. I’m at my oceanfront Cape Cod cottage. Should OBL wash ashore should I (a) Relieve my bladder on the body before calling authorities (b) Call the local natural food pig farm instead (c) Get it stuffed and bring it to my NH gun club for…you know (d) Phone Geraldo for a big $ scoop?

    Suggestions welcome.

  29. “Tea Party Nation: Obama Only Killed Bin Laden To Help His Reelection”

    That is a little messed up to say on the eve of Bin Laden’s death. People should be happy in the moment and save the politics for a few days. It is also not very probable, the election is over a year away.

    I seem to recall the meme when Bush was running for re-election, that Bin Laden would be produced just before the election. There was such certainty that it would happen because there were those on the left who thought Bin Laden was working with Bush in some grand conspiracy.

  30. Rand Simberg,

    [[[I have no idea who made that decision. I have noticed, though, that making decisions is not the presidents forte.]]]

    I’m curious. Who do you think is in charge then?

  31. Do you not understand that there is a difference between being “in charge” (i.e., ultimately responsible) and making decisions? The president is in charge, but surely you don’t imagine that he vets every decision that goes on in his administration? And many decisions take a very long time to be made, when they occur (e.g., Afghanistan).

  32. McVeigh was supposedly Christian and reportedly carried out his attack in the name of Christianity. I say reportedly, because I’ve seen the claim asserted, but I don’t recall that being exposed as the reason for the attack when it occurred. Certainly, as the assertion keeps being made that McVeigh is some sort of Christian Terrorist; I’ve seen no christian accept the argument as valid, which is to say none accept McVeigh as a christian. I think McVeigh’s body was handed over to his parents to deal with as they chose, but beyond the family, I don’t think anybody cared about what happened to the corpse.

    Personally, I don’t care what was done to Osama’s body in terms of religious rights. My issue was the desire to follow any religious rights over taking some time to make sure other parties could verify who was killed. Perhaps enough data was collected and disseminated to allies and diplomatic corps to adequate satisfaction. That is what is being reported in some areas. Still, I don’t see the need to respect Osama’s beliefs at the risk of not providing sufficient closure.

  33. McVeigh was supposedly Christian and reportedly carried out his attack in the name of Christianity. I say reportedly, because I’ve seen the claim asserted, but I don’t recall that being exposed as the reason for the attack when it occurred.

    The media attempted to paint him as a Christian terrorist, but he was a self-declared agnostic. There is no evidence of which I’m aware that he claimed that he did what he did in the name of that, or any religion.

  34. Rand,

    FYI, it was NOT a last minute decision as you seem to think. or an arbitrary one.

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/02/bin.laden.burial.at.sea/index.html?eref=rss_latest&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_latest+%28RSS%3A+Most+Recent%29

    [[[Planning for bin Laden’s burial began months ago as part of contingency planning that took into account numerous possibilities involving the terrorist leader’s capture or death, Brennan said.]]]

    Key policy decisions like this never are. They are always part of the contingency planning process, one that gives the President options, which he then decides on after discussion with his national security team.

  36. OK, if he made the decision, then I’m criticizing (not “berating”) the president. Are you happy now?

    That was a rhetorical question.

  38. There is an interesting Greek play called Antigone which deals with a young lady which wanted to give a proper burial to her dead brother. This brother was known as one of the 7 against Thebes and rebelled against his own native city. After the 7 lost, the rightful king emitted a law that treacherous people were not worthy of burial, so their bodies should simply rot in the sun. According to Greek tradition their souls would hence not reach Hades properly. Or something.

    The moral in the end is that everyone deserves proper burial.

  39. Attempting to follow the appropriate religious rituals was not aimed at OBL, but rather to underline the point that we’re not at war with Islam.

  40. I’m with you 100% on this, Rand.

    I usually try to refrain from speaking ill of the newly dead, but I have been making an exception in this case. The man was a seriously deluded psychopath, who has only brought misery into the world. He was a massively parallel killer. And I think he should have been buried with a half ton of rotting hog flesh, as a warning to others who might follow in his footsteps. And none of this should matter in the least to our Muslim friends, because, as we all know, his brand of Islamism was not “mainstream”, right?

  41. Rand,

    I was just wondering who you thought made a decision of this level if it wasn’t the President.

  42. Bill,

    The Islamic religion fragmented early in its history and it has continued fragmenting so its not surprising there are different opinions, especially given the politics behind it. At least the decision the President made is defensible based on tradition. In short it gives the scholars something to argue about rather then agreeing on.

  43. Go ahead and bury him in a manner that will provoke no controversy. No big deal. What we CAN do is pray that not a single one of his 72 virgins is female…

  45. Rand,
    I agree that I never recalled McVeigh claiming to be Christian. More to my point is while some call him a Christian to claim moral equivalency; I don’t know of christian trying to accept McVeigh as either a Christian or person supporting any common cause. Quite the opposite to what we are seeing in the Middle East today.

  46. Thomas Matula Says:

    May 2nd, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    Nice try. I fixed the link and the overwhelming majority say not correct.

  47. Bill,

    Really? And you took a poll? Sorry but I didn’t any Iranian clerics, or Trukish, or from Indonesian, or the Sudan. Again, it a large and fragmented religion.

  48. Thomas Matula Says:

    May 2nd, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    So the seat of highest learning in the Sunni branch counts little. Go with whatever your talking points tells you to do. Are you wearing a purple shirt?

  49. Bill,

    Did you notice its the same group being cited in all the articles, the same ones whose writings are against anything western? Of course anything the U.S. does will be wrong to them. And its not united. The Cleric from pro-western Jordan stated its acceptable. More importantly no Clerics from Saudi Arabia were cited, the keeper of the main Islamic holy sites and major funding source of Mosques globally, which reportedly rejected burial of his remains.

    BTW the Saudi Arabia government seems pleased with his death and considers his views as “deviant” so I expect they are good with his burial. Indeed I would not be surprised if they were secretly consulted on options given that the question of what to do with a dead Bin Laden was being looked at for a long time according to the White House. And as a former citizen whose family is still influential they were the only logical country to send it to.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/saudi-arabia-bin-laden-death-terrorism

    [[[Saudi Arabia was slow to react to the news of Osama bin Laden’s death, but said it hoped that the killing of its most notorious and wayward son would help the international fight against terrorism and stamp out the “deviant thought” behind it.]]]

  50. Rand, I think you’re starting from a false premise. I just looked over several lives of major Nazis, and Mussolini, and they were in general buried, albeit in unmarked graves. That’s what was done with Osama.

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