41 thoughts on “Are We Undermining The “Moderate” Muslims?”
Maybe various government officials did spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about how to dispose of bin Laden’s body. But in the end I suspect they simply followed standard US military practice for shipboard burial of a Muslim. Which was probably the right thing to do, even considering how funny it is to contemplate the idea of feeding the corpse to hogs or wrapping it in bacon.
Rand,
FYI What President Obama did with Bid Liden remains is in line with what President Bush did with Saddam Hussein remains.
[[[After Iraq’s Supreme Court reaffirmed his conviction, he was hanged on December 30, 2006, in Kadhimiya, a neighborhood of Badhdad. He was buried the next day at his birthplace of Al-Awja, in Tikrit, Iraq.]]]
Do you think President Bush made a mistake as well? That Saddam should have been covered in pig fat?
President Obama’s decision on how to treat the remains of Bin Laden were not just for the Islamic world. It was also for the majority of the world that is not Islamic. And in line with American tradition to follow a higher moral standard then our enemies.
Do you think President Bush made a mistake as well? That Saddam should have been covered in pig fat?
Not to defend George Bush (how stupid is it that you think that I would support something just because George Bush did it?), but this is utterly irrelevant.
Was Saddam Hussein some kind of Muslim hero?
“When will we learn that there is no pleasing these people”
Dear God, when will you learn that it’s ridiculous to stereotype a people on the actions of just a few?
The reality is that most Muslims have greeted the news of OBL’s death with … a shrug, that’s all! They know the US was after him and why, and the US got him, so what?
Your comment is on a par with Muslims who think one American tosser burning a Koran must mean that all Americans approve, when in fact it’s only a few xenophobics who approved.
Andrew W knows what Americans think! Can you tell me what I’m thinking, Andrew W?
Yes Andrea, you’re thinking the same as you were thinking the last time you had something to say about one of my comments.
And I’ve got a pretty good idea of what Americans think about the Koran burning because I read what they say they’re thinking about the Koran burning, and what they say is they’ve got a wide range of opinions.
FYI What President Obama did with Bid Liden remains is in line with what President Bush did with Saddam Hussein remains.
Incorrect. Saddam was hanged by the Iraqi government, and they, not Bush, decided how to handle his remains.
(My personal fave was this suggestion on FB:)
Usama was buried with “Islamic tradition.” So, for him, does that mean they strapped explosives to his body and threw it into a crowd of civilians?
Andrew W Says:
“Dear God, when will you learn that it’s ridiculous to stereotype a people on the actions of just a few?”
It is not all muslims but it is way more than “a few”.
In the context of a billion Muslims worldwide, I think describing those who’ve reacted by condemning the killing of OBL as “a few” is reasonable. There’s Hamas, and the Muslim brotherhood, but even the latter seem to be more concerned that if possible he should have been captured and put on trial.
But what do you think Andrew? You’ve used all your comments to tell us what Americans think and what billions of Muslims think.
My happy thought for the day: Even as we speak, Osama bin Laden is in the process of being converted to crab excrement.
I only wish the Navy had wrapped him in bacon before dumping him out the garbage shoot.
Scott Johnson over at Powerlineblog comments on the account of the man’s burial at sea by the U.S. Navy, ending his post with the word “Unbelievable.”
Here is a man (not Scott Johnson) who declared and waged war on the United States, as a non-state actor but certainly with the ambitions of forming what he considered would be a superpower state. Him having declared this war, the United States fought back, killing him when he offered resistance. As a vanquished foe, he was buried at sea according to the forms, procedures, and customs of the United States Navy, which include following the procedures of the culture of the man’s origin.
What the U.S. Navy did is nothing new. When the Howard Hughes salvage ship raised a Russian missle sub that sank in an accident, remains of Russian sailors were part of what were retrieved. After the end of the Cold War, video was released showing that these men, military sailors of our Cold War enemy who were piloting a vessel pointing atomic weapons at us, that these men were buried at sea after observing burial rites of the Russian Orthodox tradition.
I am not saying that the man in question should have been extended the same courtesies and magnanimity in victory as what was bestowed on Robert E Lee. The tactics used by this man in pursuing his vision of a Middle Eastern super-state clearly made him a war criminal. But he was a sworn enemy of the United States, and in offering resistance to our soldiers, he died as an enemy combatant.
I am disdainful of the notion that the killing of this man constitutes some form of justice, because to claim this, reduces what is a global war to a mere law-enforcement action. War is much bigger than mere justice as it is ultimately about self preservation against foes outside the circle of our system of justice. Attorney Scott Johnson, however, seems to believe that the remains of the man in question were not shown some disrespect had something to do with some manner of political correctness of the current President rather than the customs and traditions of how our military wages war. In expressing this point of view with “Unbelievable”, Mr. Johnson shows himself to be a small man indeed.
Paul Milenkovic Says:
“What the U.S. Navy did is nothing new. When the Howard Hughes salvage ship raised a Russian missile sub that sank in an accident, remains of Russian sailors were part of what were retrieved. After the end of the Cold War, video was released showing that these men, military sailors of our Cold War enemy who were piloting a vessel pointing atomic weapons at us, that these men were buried at sea after observing burial rites of the Russian Orthodox tradition.”
You see no difference between military men of another country – who were riding patrol and who attacked no one – and someone who planned and launched multiple terrorist attacks against the US (and others) killing thousands?
Andrew W Says:
“The reality is that most Muslims have greeted the news of OBL’s death with … a shrug, that’s all! ”
How do you know that?
I translated “buried in accordance with Muslim tradition” to be mollifying words for “did not piss on his body in public.” In any case, Muslim tradition seems to be rather elastic when it comes to the proper disposal of dead people. For example, there’s the Muslim custom of a hysterical crowd parading the beloved dead leader through the streets, ending with the body being torn to bits by frenzied followers seeking “souvenirs.” That’s what happened to the late Ayatollah Khomeini, if you will recall. Oddly enough, I wouldn’t have been entirely against that sort of “traditional Muslim burial.” I mean, it would have made just about everyone happy — his nutso followers, and those of us who wouldn’t mind seeing his corpse reduced to religious kibbles.
Gregg, Andrew is omniscient — he sees all, knows all! I imagine him at his keyboard wearing a giant turban like Johnny Carson in one of his skits about that guy who predicts things.
Dear God, when will you learn that it’s ridiculous to stereotype a people on the actions of just a few?
That crap is really getting old. It is perfectly natural and normal to question self-identified members of a group based on the behavior of select members of that group who justify their behavior by stating their membership of that group requires said behavior. As Rand indicted (and there is near-total international agreement), what is needed is a reformation. Painting with a broad brush is one tool that can be used to encourage that process. And it is perfectly acceptable to use it.
You see no difference between military men of another country – who were riding patrol and who attacked no one – and someone who planned and launched multiple terrorist attacks against the US (and others) killing thousands?
This, but add killing thousands of innocent civilians including people of his own belief. I agree that the US Navy followed ritual customs, and I have no beef with that. I also am well versed in the story of K-129 salvage and burial of the sailors found dead aboard. If one cares to invoke K-129, it should be considered that the sailors onboard Glomar Explorer felt a kinship in common duties to those who died onboard the Soviet sub. Though they were adversaries by nations, they were no personal animosity. A better example may be the military honors given to Baron Von Richtofen, but even that doesn’t recognize the significance of the Red Baron as a warrior who fought other warriors.
Still, I don’t so much care about provisions of religious honors. I just don’t see the need to expedite Bin Laden’s burial in order to meet a religious ideology that he reportedly abused and bastardized. My general issues are decreasing however, as it seems more apparent that positive identification was not only made (I’m sure it was before), but identification is sufficient to many third parties (which I wasn’t sure). If enough people are convinced it’s really Osama, and he’s actually dead, then I’m happy with the quick disposal of his body in any manner.
You see no difference between military men of another country – who were riding patrol and who attacked no one – and someone who planned and launched multiple terrorist attacks against the US (and others) killing thousands?
Whoa, not to butt-in here, but Paul makes good points here which you then trivialize with a straw-man. First, it’s a very good thing that we have soldiers (yes, I know they were navy, but I use the term generically) who maintain honor and dignity in war and that that courtesy extends to the dead as well. Second, let’s not expect soldiers to be theologians and philosophers – soldiers follow orders, customs and procedures. We all agree which side those protocols should err on. The man isn’t lying in state at the rotunda — he was (allegedly) buried at sea with the minimum level of respect required. OBL ended when he died. There’s no need to desecrate the husk, and I’m sure you’re familiar with the concepts of staring into the abyss too long and lowering yourself to your enemey’s level…
Andrea Harris Says:
“Gregg, Andrew is omniscient — he sees all, knows all! I imagine him at his keyboard wearing a giant turban like Johnny Carson in one of his skits about that guy who predicts things.”
You mean Karnac the Great lives?!?!?!?!
If enough people are convinced it’s really Osama, and he’s actually dead, then I’m happy with the quick disposal of his body in any manner.
This. Leland, the ninja.
Titus Quinn Says:
“Whoa, not to butt-in here, but Paul makes good points here which you then trivialize with a straw-man.”
Many good points which I didn’t bother to repeat.
But I disagree with THIS analogy in particular.
Andrew is omniscient
I wouldn’t say he is omniscient as much as a communal thinker. Some might call it a populous tendency, but as Jiminator asked, what does he think? And we have no answer without a poll.
I wouldn’t say he is omniscient as much as a communal thinker.
Cocktail mentality.
I wouldn’t say he is omniscient as much as a communal thinker regurgitator.
Perhaps a closer analogy might be how the U.S. handled the Nazi war criminals executed at Nuremberg. They were cremated, acceptable under German tradition, and then their ashes were spread over an undisclosed river to prevent Nazi sympathizers from having any graves or sites to worship.
Actually I don’t agree with this either:
“War is much bigger than mere justice as it is ultimately about self preservation against foes outside the circle of our system of justice.”
I agree it’s bigger than justice (though justice can be a major part of it). But it’s not always about self-preservation:
If you were Caesar standing on the Pas de Calais looking over at Britain, you didn’t feel all that threatened. But you might feel pretty greedy. For the Brits it was a matter of self-preservation.
If you were Alexander, invading Persia was a matter of self-preservation. But India? Not so much, I think.
But I digress……
The administration could have said nothing about how they handled OBL’s body. The body could have been handled “neutrally”…not with savagery and not over-doing the adherence to whatever form of ritual you get from whichever scholar (which, as Andrea so aptly pointed out, can vary wildly: khomeni etc).
The washing bit could have been to allow taking pictures that would establish clear, unambiguous identity. Who knows? Well some people do. We may never find out.
Here and here are a couple links to polling done about Bin Laden in 6 Muslim countries. The numbers have changed over time and were trending downward.
There was very little support in Turkey, Lebanon, and Jordan. In Egypt, Palestine, and Indonesia there was a significant number of people that approve of Bin Laden.
The thing to keep in mind, is that this was just for Bin Laden and not for the causes he supported. It would be interesting to see a poll that took Osama out of the question and focused on the issues he used to justify the existence of Al Qaeda.
I’m more concerned with the title up top here, and Rand’s continuing insistence that we must be enemies with all Muslims, all one billion+ of them.
That is a foolishness. There are many decent human beings who are Muslims, there are Muslims of all varieties just as for other faiths (and for those who espouse none) and we are just hurting ourselves if we pick a fight with the whole bunch.
When the neo-conservatives ran the US government we committed many self-defeating acts. Those fools harmed this nation far worse than the attacks of 9/11 did. Now I’m glad that OBL is dead, and very glad that a US bullet finished him off. But we need to move on and repair the damage done to this nation by the stupidity of its own government.
Kevin Greene Says:
“I’m more concerned with the title up top here, and Rand’s continuing insistence that we must be enemies with all Muslims, all one billion+ of them.”
Except that Rand never said nor implied that in the slightest.
“Now I’m glad that OBL is dead, and very glad that a US bullet finished him off.”
You against US interrogators using waterboarding?
“But what do you think Andrew?”
In terms of him being killed in that way? The US was going to get him eventually, I’m not crying in my soup or doing cartwheels, more kay sera sera.
I think Kevin’s obsession with neo-conservatives is unhealthy.
“When the neo-conservatives ran the US government we committed many self-defeating acts.”
We have seen the re-appearance of the neo-conservatives on TV in support of Obama in Libya.
It is also ironic that Cheney’s assassination squad carried out the operation to get Bin Laden.
There are legitimate reasons to be concerned with Muslim extremists as evidenced here, here,
We shouldn’t condemn the entire religion but it is foolish to think there isn’t a significant problem with their extremists.
If only 1/10th of 1% of the 1 billion Muslims are extremists bent on doing us harm, that’s still a million people. If I were a Muslim, I’d be pissed at those who are committing these acts in the name of my faith.
Larry J, I very much doubt that you’re right. When we have statistics such as 40% of British Muslims (or to be more accurate, Muslims who live in Britain – Britishness and Islam are incompatible IMHO) thinking that Sharia ought to be instituted in the UK…
Larry J Says:
“If only 1/10th of 1% of the 1 billion Muslims are extremists bent on doing us harm, that’s still a million people. If I were a Muslim, I’d be pissed at those who are committing these acts in the name of my faith.”
You might. But you might also be too scared to be highly visible and vocal about it.
Fletcher, I’m not saying that the percentage is that low. All I’m saying is that when you’re talking about a billion people, even very low percentages still leaves a lot of people to be concerned about.
Gregg, you’re right. It does seem that quite a few Muslims have issues with those – Muslim or not – who hold a differing opinion.
Quick, you guys out to go over to Hot Air where they have posted this video
Maybe various government officials did spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about how to dispose of bin Laden’s body. But in the end I suspect they simply followed standard US military practice for shipboard burial of a Muslim. Which was probably the right thing to do, even considering how funny it is to contemplate the idea of feeding the corpse to hogs or wrapping it in bacon.
Rand,
FYI What President Obama did with Bid Liden remains is in line with what President Bush did with Saddam Hussein remains.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=17206247
[[[After Iraq’s Supreme Court reaffirmed his conviction, he was hanged on December 30, 2006, in Kadhimiya, a neighborhood of Badhdad. He was buried the next day at his birthplace of Al-Awja, in Tikrit, Iraq.]]]
Do you think President Bush made a mistake as well? That Saddam should have been covered in pig fat?
President Obama’s decision on how to treat the remains of Bin Laden were not just for the Islamic world. It was also for the majority of the world that is not Islamic. And in line with American tradition to follow a higher moral standard then our enemies.
Do you think President Bush made a mistake as well? That Saddam should have been covered in pig fat?
Not to defend George Bush (how stupid is it that you think that I would support something just because George Bush did it?), but this is utterly irrelevant.
Was Saddam Hussein some kind of Muslim hero?
“When will we learn that there is no pleasing these people”
Dear God, when will you learn that it’s ridiculous to stereotype a people on the actions of just a few?
The reality is that most Muslims have greeted the news of OBL’s death with … a shrug, that’s all! They know the US was after him and why, and the US got him, so what?
Your comment is on a par with Muslims who think one American tosser burning a Koran must mean that all Americans approve, when in fact it’s only a few xenophobics who approved.
Andrew W knows what Americans think! Can you tell me what I’m thinking, Andrew W?
Yes Andrea, you’re thinking the same as you were thinking the last time you had something to say about one of my comments.
And I’ve got a pretty good idea of what Americans think about the Koran burning because I read what they say they’re thinking about the Koran burning, and what they say is they’ve got a wide range of opinions.
Incorrect. Saddam was hanged by the Iraqi government, and they, not Bush, decided how to handle his remains.
(My personal fave was this suggestion on FB:)
Andrew W Says:
“Dear God, when will you learn that it’s ridiculous to stereotype a people on the actions of just a few?”
It is not all muslims but it is way more than “a few”.
In the context of a billion Muslims worldwide, I think describing those who’ve reacted by condemning the killing of OBL as “a few” is reasonable. There’s Hamas, and the Muslim brotherhood, but even the latter seem to be more concerned that if possible he should have been captured and put on trial.
But what do you think Andrew? You’ve used all your comments to tell us what Americans think and what billions of Muslims think.
My happy thought for the day: Even as we speak, Osama bin Laden is in the process of being converted to crab excrement.
I only wish the Navy had wrapped him in bacon before dumping him out the garbage shoot.
Scott Johnson over at Powerlineblog comments on the account of the man’s burial at sea by the U.S. Navy, ending his post with the word “Unbelievable.”
Here is a man (not Scott Johnson) who declared and waged war on the United States, as a non-state actor but certainly with the ambitions of forming what he considered would be a superpower state. Him having declared this war, the United States fought back, killing him when he offered resistance. As a vanquished foe, he was buried at sea according to the forms, procedures, and customs of the United States Navy, which include following the procedures of the culture of the man’s origin.
What the U.S. Navy did is nothing new. When the Howard Hughes salvage ship raised a Russian missle sub that sank in an accident, remains of Russian sailors were part of what were retrieved. After the end of the Cold War, video was released showing that these men, military sailors of our Cold War enemy who were piloting a vessel pointing atomic weapons at us, that these men were buried at sea after observing burial rites of the Russian Orthodox tradition.
I am not saying that the man in question should have been extended the same courtesies and magnanimity in victory as what was bestowed on Robert E Lee. The tactics used by this man in pursuing his vision of a Middle Eastern super-state clearly made him a war criminal. But he was a sworn enemy of the United States, and in offering resistance to our soldiers, he died as an enemy combatant.
I am disdainful of the notion that the killing of this man constitutes some form of justice, because to claim this, reduces what is a global war to a mere law-enforcement action. War is much bigger than mere justice as it is ultimately about self preservation against foes outside the circle of our system of justice. Attorney Scott Johnson, however, seems to believe that the remains of the man in question were not shown some disrespect had something to do with some manner of political correctness of the current President rather than the customs and traditions of how our military wages war. In expressing this point of view with “Unbelievable”, Mr. Johnson shows himself to be a small man indeed.
Paul Milenkovic Says:
“What the U.S. Navy did is nothing new. When the Howard Hughes salvage ship raised a Russian missile sub that sank in an accident, remains of Russian sailors were part of what were retrieved. After the end of the Cold War, video was released showing that these men, military sailors of our Cold War enemy who were piloting a vessel pointing atomic weapons at us, that these men were buried at sea after observing burial rites of the Russian Orthodox tradition.”
You see no difference between military men of another country – who were riding patrol and who attacked no one – and someone who planned and launched multiple terrorist attacks against the US (and others) killing thousands?
Andrew W Says:
“The reality is that most Muslims have greeted the news of OBL’s death with … a shrug, that’s all! ”
How do you know that?
I translated “buried in accordance with Muslim tradition” to be mollifying words for “did not piss on his body in public.” In any case, Muslim tradition seems to be rather elastic when it comes to the proper disposal of dead people. For example, there’s the Muslim custom of a hysterical crowd parading the beloved dead leader through the streets, ending with the body being torn to bits by frenzied followers seeking “souvenirs.” That’s what happened to the late Ayatollah Khomeini, if you will recall. Oddly enough, I wouldn’t have been entirely against that sort of “traditional Muslim burial.” I mean, it would have made just about everyone happy — his nutso followers, and those of us who wouldn’t mind seeing his corpse reduced to religious kibbles.
Gregg, Andrew is omniscient — he sees all, knows all! I imagine him at his keyboard wearing a giant turban like Johnny Carson in one of his skits about that guy who predicts things.
Dear God, when will you learn that it’s ridiculous to stereotype a people on the actions of just a few?
That crap is really getting old. It is perfectly natural and normal to question self-identified members of a group based on the behavior of select members of that group who justify their behavior by stating their membership of that group requires said behavior. As Rand indicted (and there is near-total international agreement), what is needed is a reformation. Painting with a broad brush is one tool that can be used to encourage that process. And it is perfectly acceptable to use it.
You see no difference between military men of another country – who were riding patrol and who attacked no one – and someone who planned and launched multiple terrorist attacks against the US (and others) killing thousands?
This, but add killing thousands of innocent civilians including people of his own belief. I agree that the US Navy followed ritual customs, and I have no beef with that. I also am well versed in the story of K-129 salvage and burial of the sailors found dead aboard. If one cares to invoke K-129, it should be considered that the sailors onboard Glomar Explorer felt a kinship in common duties to those who died onboard the Soviet sub. Though they were adversaries by nations, they were no personal animosity. A better example may be the military honors given to Baron Von Richtofen, but even that doesn’t recognize the significance of the Red Baron as a warrior who fought other warriors.
Still, I don’t so much care about provisions of religious honors. I just don’t see the need to expedite Bin Laden’s burial in order to meet a religious ideology that he reportedly abused and bastardized. My general issues are decreasing however, as it seems more apparent that positive identification was not only made (I’m sure it was before), but identification is sufficient to many third parties (which I wasn’t sure). If enough people are convinced it’s really Osama, and he’s actually dead, then I’m happy with the quick disposal of his body in any manner.
Whoa, not to butt-in here, but Paul makes good points here which you then trivialize with a straw-man. First, it’s a very good thing that we have soldiers (yes, I know they were navy, but I use the term generically) who maintain honor and dignity in war and that that courtesy extends to the dead as well. Second, let’s not expect soldiers to be theologians and philosophers – soldiers follow orders, customs and procedures. We all agree which side those protocols should err on. The man isn’t lying in state at the rotunda — he was (allegedly) buried at sea with the minimum level of respect required. OBL ended when he died. There’s no need to desecrate the husk, and I’m sure you’re familiar with the concepts of staring into the abyss too long and lowering yourself to your enemey’s level…
Andrea Harris Says:
“Gregg, Andrew is omniscient — he sees all, knows all! I imagine him at his keyboard wearing a giant turban like Johnny Carson in one of his skits about that guy who predicts things.”
You mean Karnac the Great lives?!?!?!?!
This. Leland, the ninja.
Titus Quinn Says:
“Whoa, not to butt-in here, but Paul makes good points here which you then trivialize with a straw-man.”
Many good points which I didn’t bother to repeat.
But I disagree with THIS analogy in particular.
Andrew is omniscient
I wouldn’t say he is omniscient as much as a communal thinker. Some might call it a populous tendency, but as Jiminator asked, what does he think? And we have no answer without a poll.
Cocktail mentality.
I wouldn’t say he is omniscient as much as a communal
thinkerregurgitator.Perhaps a closer analogy might be how the U.S. handled the Nazi war criminals executed at Nuremberg. They were cremated, acceptable under German tradition, and then their ashes were spread over an undisclosed river to prevent Nazi sympathizers from having any graves or sites to worship.
Actually I don’t agree with this either:
“War is much bigger than mere justice as it is ultimately about self preservation against foes outside the circle of our system of justice.”
I agree it’s bigger than justice (though justice can be a major part of it). But it’s not always about self-preservation:
If you were Caesar standing on the Pas de Calais looking over at Britain, you didn’t feel all that threatened. But you might feel pretty greedy. For the Brits it was a matter of self-preservation.
If you were Alexander, invading Persia was a matter of self-preservation. But India? Not so much, I think.
But I digress……
The administration could have said nothing about how they handled OBL’s body. The body could have been handled “neutrally”…not with savagery and not over-doing the adherence to whatever form of ritual you get from whichever scholar (which, as Andrea so aptly pointed out, can vary wildly: khomeni etc).
The washing bit could have been to allow taking pictures that would establish clear, unambiguous identity. Who knows? Well some people do. We may never find out.
Here and here are a couple links to polling done about Bin Laden in 6 Muslim countries. The numbers have changed over time and were trending downward.
There was very little support in Turkey, Lebanon, and Jordan. In Egypt, Palestine, and Indonesia there was a significant number of people that approve of Bin Laden.
The thing to keep in mind, is that this was just for Bin Laden and not for the causes he supported. It would be interesting to see a poll that took Osama out of the question and focused on the issues he used to justify the existence of Al Qaeda.
I’m more concerned with the title up top here, and Rand’s continuing insistence that we must be enemies with all Muslims, all one billion+ of them.
That is a foolishness. There are many decent human beings who are Muslims, there are Muslims of all varieties just as for other faiths (and for those who espouse none) and we are just hurting ourselves if we pick a fight with the whole bunch.
When the neo-conservatives ran the US government we committed many self-defeating acts. Those fools harmed this nation far worse than the attacks of 9/11 did. Now I’m glad that OBL is dead, and very glad that a US bullet finished him off. But we need to move on and repair the damage done to this nation by the stupidity of its own government.
Kevin Greene Says:
“I’m more concerned with the title up top here, and Rand’s continuing insistence that we must be enemies with all Muslims, all one billion+ of them.”
Except that Rand never said nor implied that in the slightest.
“Now I’m glad that OBL is dead, and very glad that a US bullet finished him off.”
You against US interrogators using waterboarding?
“But what do you think Andrew?”
In terms of him being killed in that way? The US was going to get him eventually, I’m not crying in my soup or doing cartwheels, more kay sera sera.
I think Kevin’s obsession with neo-conservatives is unhealthy.
“When the neo-conservatives ran the US government we committed many self-defeating acts.”
We have seen the re-appearance of the neo-conservatives on TV in support of Obama in Libya.
It is also ironic that Cheney’s assassination squad carried out the operation to get Bin Laden.
There are legitimate reasons to be concerned with Muslim extremists as evidenced here, here,
and here, here,
and here, here.
We shouldn’t condemn the entire religion but it is foolish to think there isn’t a significant problem with their extremists.
If only 1/10th of 1% of the 1 billion Muslims are extremists bent on doing us harm, that’s still a million people. If I were a Muslim, I’d be pissed at those who are committing these acts in the name of my faith.
Larry J, I very much doubt that you’re right. When we have statistics such as 40% of British Muslims (or to be more accurate, Muslims who live in Britain – Britishness and Islam are incompatible IMHO) thinking that Sharia ought to be instituted in the UK…
Larry J Says:
“If only 1/10th of 1% of the 1 billion Muslims are extremists bent on doing us harm, that’s still a million people. If I were a Muslim, I’d be pissed at those who are committing these acts in the name of my faith.”
You might. But you might also be too scared to be highly visible and vocal about it.
Fletcher, I’m not saying that the percentage is that low. All I’m saying is that when you’re talking about a billion people, even very low percentages still leaves a lot of people to be concerned about.
Gregg, you’re right. It does seem that quite a few Muslims have issues with those – Muslim or not – who hold a differing opinion.
Quick, you guys out to go over to Hot Air where they have posted this video
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/05/03/bad-news-american-trash-tv-comes-to-iraq/