OK, I’m going to throw some cold water here.
My immediate thoughts:
1) I was surprised, because I’d thought he was dead years ago, probably in Tora Bora, and the CIA was keeping him alive for political effect. He was such a camera hog prior to and immediately after 911, that the only reason that he was no longer sending out videos was either because he was dead, or in such a visibly weakened physical state that he didn’t want to be seen that way. Either way, I assumed that he as a real individual was no longer a consequential player in the war.
2) We were not at war with Osama bin Laden. Unlike Hitler, he did not invent the ideology. He merely took an existing one, and implemented it in a way unprecedented in modern times (though it had been in full force for centuries in the past — unfortunately, most people are unaware of history). He is not, and never was, essential to its survival. There was no signing of a surrender on the deck of the Missouri tonight. The troops cannot come home simply because we killed one guy who had been on the run for years.
3) I can readily understand why the administration wants to play this up as though (2) weren’t true. They are desperate for any news on the political front that can rally the people, and distract them from its disastrous policies, not just on the war and foreign policy in general, but on five-dollar gas, rising grocery prices, continuing lack of jobs, continuing plunging home prices and increasing foreclosures, etc. etc. etc. They hope that a faux war victory will boost the poll ratings of a president that, if the election were to be held today, to almost anyone, would lose by a landslide.
4) I fear that we will continue to ignore the real issues of this war, and how to win it, and how to confront the ugly reality of how hard it will be to win. And when I say hard, I mean much harder than WW II, with a casualty count that may be horrendous, even in comparison. Despite the jubilation among the nation, this event makes me more pessimistic about the future, because the reaction to it is an indication of the lack of sobriety and reason with which we approach this potentially existential war.
[Update a few minutes later]
Is the administration hoping that this will be their “Fall of Atlanta” moment as it was for Lincoln in 19864?
If so, they’re fooling themselves because 1) the election is a year and a half away, not a couple months and 2) the war is not the primary issue in the voters’ minds. But they will still attempt, however politically incompetently, to milk this “victory” for all it’s worth.
[Monday morning update]
If he was looking for peace and quiet, this guy sure picked the wrong week to move to Abbottabad.
[Update a few minutes later]
Claudia Rossett: This is a long war, and Al Qaeda is just a part of it. Yes. Long not just in the future, but going back many centuries.
[Update a couple minutes later]
Does the trail really end in Pakistan?
Ironically the circumstances surrounding the death of Osama Bin Laden tends to confirm the theory that terrorism, rather than being a spontaneous meme that floats above the planet, is in fact deeply rooted in the intelligence agencies and regimes of certain states. Thus, neither Hamas nor Hezbollah are creations of some kind of rage any more than than September 11 was wholly the result of some kind of amorphous resentment. Osama Bin Laden had backers; people with uniforms, ranks and the resources of bureaucracies behind them. Those who believe that the War on Terror is nothing but a law enforcement problem must ask themselves whether it is really rather larger than that.
Unfortunately, such feckless people are currently running the country.
[Update a while later, and welcome Instapundit readers]
I have a question about religious burials.
[Update a while later]
“Osama bin Laden is dead, and I blame George Bush.”
[Update another hour or so later]
Bin Laden is dead, and his cause goes marching on. And many in the West, including people at the highest levels of the US government, remain in denial.
[Update early afternoon]
I’m completely unsurprised to learn that he died while hiding behind a woman, using her as a shield. To call him a craven sack of scum is to insult craven sacks of scum everywhere.
The President made it clear the war was not over. But this is still a victory and sends the message don’t mess with the USA as we will hunt you down no matter where you are. Period.
And yes it does give the USA a moral boost just like it did when the Army Air Force paid Yamamoto back for Peal Harbor in 1943.
I wonder if OBL pissed off somebody in the Pakistani government and they fingered him to us. You don’t live in a mansion is a plush suburb of the capital without some part of the government being aware of it.
You know I really don’t think that this guy’s reaction should be described as having “a lack of sobriety and reason.” And from what I’ve been reading on the internet (not from watching tv news — I don’t have cable or broadcast tv) I don’t see anyone saying “Yay! We won! The war is over!”
I guess this means we get to build a victory church in Kabul.
Typo Alert!
“Is the administration hoping that this will be their “Fall of Atlanta” moment as it was for Lincoln in 1964?”
Did you mean 1864?
“this event makes me more pessimistic about the future, because the reaction to it is an indication of the lack of sobriety and reason with which we approach this potentially existential war.”
Tonight we party and drink to excess!
Tonight we celebrate the defeat of one of our greatest enemies.
The fight might not be over but for tonight we celebrate our victories!
In the days, weeks, and months to come there will be plenty of time for further analysis but tonight we wave the flag, sing songs, and hoist a tankard or three.
Where’s the Death Certificate?
Titus Quinn Says:
“Where’s the Death Certificate?”
There had to be cameras rolling, maybe someday we will get to see the footage.
I do think this should put to rest one of the enduring myths of our time — a myth which was partly responsible for 9/11, in fact. That’s the idea that democracies can’t stomach a long struggle.
This shows that even with severe domestic divisions, economic problems, etc., the United States could stay the course and nail this bastard. Maybe, just maybe, the next wanna-be warlord will take notice.
You can’t scare us into submission with a devastating strike, and you can’t wear us down, either.
You know, I do hope this helps collapse Al Qaeda’s resistance. I don’t know the precise value of this man to their cause, but it can’t be trivial, what with supplying something like $100M in funding to their organization and masterminding a few of their more devastating attacks.
Perhaps without his families funding, and his organization, the effort will start to dissolve.
If new, less experienced, leaders attempt to take his place, they may also make stupid mistakes, like trying to puff up their image on camera – it could make it easy to start rolling them up too.
1) What Trimegistus said; 2) I do have a bit of cold water of my own to throw, namely that AQ is now funded by narcotics Prohibition, and only a far more sensible regulatory approach to opiates has any chance of mitigating that; 3) Rand is also unfortunately correct about the preexistence of the ideology behind AQ. Wahhabism has been around for 3 centuries and is the state religion of the KSA, which is responsible for 9/10 of all expenditures propagating Islam worldwide. To water down a Churchillian phrase, this may just be the end of the beginning, but no more.
I bet Obama wishes he had waited on releasing that birth certificate now. This was the perfect way to distract from that issue.
Double bonus points, however, for pre-empting the end of “Celebrity Apprentice” last night, for a speech that didn’t take place until 45 minutes after they broke in.
Also didn’t surprise me to see Obama take credit for the entire thing, and all but say that he did what Bush could not. According to Fox, Obama called Bush and a few others on a short list to give them the news long before the speech. I wonder how many “nyah, nyah”s were in that phone call…
We were not at war with Osama bin Laden But he was at war with us. Now he sleeps with the fishes.
disastrous policies, such as killing the architect of 9/11? And not by drones or cruise missiles, which Bin Laden tauntingly called cowardly, but with a bullet to the head?
sobriety and reason with which we approach this potentially existential war I would seriously like to hear how we go from flakes like Bin Laden and Al Zawarhi (or whoever steps up to fill OBL’s shoes) hiding in suburban mansions to “threatening the existence of the US?”
That’s actually a serious question. Because in my mind, OBL’s plan was:
1) Blow people up.
2) ?????
3) World domination!
I’d really like to see what you think step 2 looks like.
I only hope they wrapped his body in bacon before dumping it overboard like so much garbage.
Early reports (which often are found erroneous later) suggest that Osama whereabouts were known, but an attempt to take him out by a missile/bomb strike were delayed for a more close in encounter. While this may or may not be true, and if true would have put others at risk; I’d have to say that was the right call, and supposedly the call came from the President. Getting Osama on a personal level and having hard evidence that he was captured and killed is great news. Not so great was treating his body with Muslim respect (why are respecting him, the religion I understand, but Osama?) and dumping the body at sea before a larger audience can do verification that it is indeed Osama and he is dead.
Otherwise agree with:
Rand: Osama may be dead, but he’s not whom we are at war.
Wodun: Still it is a time to celebrate the demise of a major enemy.
Trimegistus: The US has proven it does have the resolve that seemed deminished. To me, for this, President Obama deserve credits for maintaining the pressure in Afghanistan and especially on Pakistan.
flakes like Bin Laden and Al Zawarhi hiding in suburban mansions
So Chris, I’m guessing if you were Obama’s speechwriter you would have… re-worded this:
today’s achievement is a testament to the greatness of our country
To what?
Curt Thomson – I think it sounds fine the way it’s written. My question is, given the greatness of our country, how does (or how would, more accurately) OBL go from his hideout to world power?
You make my point for me, Chris. Bin Laden was never the problem. He was a symptom of it.
The news report they took out his son as well, so the Navy Seals cleaned house.
I predict this will make Obama as unbeatable as GHWB’s smashing victory in Kuwait did in 92!
My take is:
1) It was the right thing to do. Kudos to the President for signing off on it. I was unsure if he would give the order if he had the chance. But he did.
2) Great job by the Seals and I’m very glad none were hurt.
3) OBL was not a big player in the war these days, as far as I can tell, but that doesn’t me we shouldn’t have greased him.
4) I agree with Leland when he says that while we might have bombed him from afar, it was the right thing to do to walk in and take him personally. That counts for a lot.
5) I wonder what price the Paks extracted for this.
6) Will BHO use this event to declare victory and leave Afghanistan? We’ll know in the next 6 months to a year. If I had to bet, my bet would be “yes”.
“I’d really like to see what you think step 2 looks like.”
Muslim Brotherhood, useful idiots at the UN, petro dollars building Mosques world wide, supporting appeasers in Europe, it’s long list but easy to see if you would pay attention.
M Puckett–you have a point, but its also worth reiterating that GHWB’s victory in Kuwait was twenty years ago in 1991–making the parallel that much more potentially apt–as it was about a year and a half prior to the 1992 election. Needless to say, a lot can go wrong in a year and a half. Also, at that point, I believe the only Democrat who had declared his candidacy for 1992 was Paul Tsongas. Clinton was said to be thinking about it, but at that point, Clinton was mainly known as the man who famously bombed in his keynote before the Democrats’ convention in 1988. The speech was long and boring and undisciplined (all hallmarks of most Clinton speeches during his years as president), and pundits everywhere talked about how he had missed an opportunity to present himself effectively to the nation.
Since we’re talking about Bin Laden, we have to ask,
“Who’s the strong horse now?”
Welcome to the dustbin of history, UBL, and good riddance.
Killing bin Laden is a symbolic victory for the US. Such victories are important and should be commemorated for their morale effect on both sides. But just like an athlete who has just one game of a long playoff campaign, you enjoy it for a couple hours and then get back to work. (I have Stanley Cup playoffs on the brain…)
Leland,
Two problems with bombing him. One, its hard to get DNA evidence afterward.
Second, Bin Laden’s compound was near one of their largest military bases and their officer academy. Retired Pakistan Generals live in many of the surrounding homes. The fact that the U.S. Navy Seals reached from the ocean and accomplished this mission in such a heavily patrolled area without letting the Pakistan military know before hand is likely to give other dictators all over the world many sleepless nights.
I know what you are saying Kurt. I meant the 92 election. I was in the Army during Shield/Storm so I remember well when it begain and ended. It begain the day I graduated basic training for instance. Aug 02, 1990.
The only thing missing was a “Mission Accomplished” banner behind the Community-Organizer-In-Chief.
Matula,
Please work on your reading comprehension before lecturing others. If you are unable to understand “I’d have to say that was the right call”; then you have no business explaining anything to anyone.
Rand’s reaction is a demonstration of just how blinkered the ‘thinking’ can be in this country. Reporters who know the region, and have actually taken the trouble to speak with people in that region, were unanimous last night that within Islam, this really is a big deal.
OBL was the leader of the terror network, and his survival this long after 9/11 was a continuing insult to the entire West. His death, and burial at sea, and the manner in which the Seals went into the home town of the Pak. Army to take him out, all sends wonderful messages everywhere.
It also helps the faction within Pakistan that would love to clean out their “intelligence” section, the ISI which was sheltering OBL, is undoubtedly sheltering the Egyptian doctor who is next on the list, and others too.
I do have one complaint. Last night, CBS broke into a popular reality show at 8:40 pm Pacific time to cover this story, and NBC and ABC did the same. Faux Entertainment stuck with The Simpsons, while they tried to find a way to spin this against the President – then their anchor had a Freudian slip saying “President Obama is dead”. I wish I could say that such conduct was surprising, but it wasn’t. Big fail.
Oh, and Rand, I’m still annoyed at your smear yesterday against the President’s patriotism, in another post. Bad timing.
Chris Gerrib Says:
“My question is, given the greatness of our country, how does (or how would, more accurately) OBL go from his hideout to world power?”
Chris: How did Hitler go from a bearded, scraggly, loser, artist living in a men’s home in Pre-WWI Vienna to the Reich Chancellor in 1933?
Hint: It wasn’t all (or even mostly) because of Hitlerian skill and talent. It was a confluence of events, lucky breaks, etc. which no one could arrange much less foresee.
Raoul: we’ll leave that sort of posturing to neo-conservative fools – if you can ever get one elected again after the blunders of the past decade.
Kevin Greene Says:
“we’ll leave that sort of posturing to neo-conservative fools – if you can ever get one elected again after the blunders of the past decade.”
We’ll remember you said that if BHO ends the Afghanistan adventure and gives the death of Bin Laden as the reason.
I wish I could say that such conduct was surprising, but it wasn’t.
No it wasn’t. I think Mark Steyn summed it up very well.
His death, and burial at sea, and the manner in which the Seals went into the home town of the Pak. Army to take him out, all sends wonderful messages everywhere.
His death is causing the US State Department to warn of potential attacks of retribution.
His burial at sea is inappropriate to Islam, which according to Muslim clerics in Egypt allows for burial at sea if death occurs at sea.
As for sending in a SEAL team, even judicial scholars in the US are pointing out that this is a cut and dry example of targetted killing of a foreign national.
That’s not to say I disagree with any of those actions. In fact, I’m happy with all of them. But “all sends wonderful messages everywhere” is total BS.
This is the correct link on the last quote in the OP.
http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2011/05/01/the-end-of-the-trail/
I have to say that I am somewhat astonished that Obama chose to execute Bin Laden rather than bringing him in for trial, given the decisions and strategies from the Justice Department regarding war criminals over the past two years.
I fear that this may be a classic example of the stopped clock, but I gotta give him credit for making the right decision in this case.
Leland,
[[[But “all sends wonderful messages everywhere” is total BS.]]]
I never say wonderful. Don’t put words in folks mouths. What it does say to enemies of the U.S. is we will get you, no matter where you hide.
And to the rest of the world – Don’t mess with the USA.
Now I think those are good messages to have out there. Do you?
I never say wonderful. Don’t put words in folks mouths.
Hey moron, I was responding to Kevin Greene. Not everything is about you.
@Kevin Greene
Hey Dick Weed, one of your MSNBC goddesses, Norah O’Donnell (what is it with MSNBC and idiots named O’Donnell?) tweeted Obama shot and killed: http://dailycaller.com/2011/05/02/typo-msnbc-correspondent-accidentally-reports-on-twitter-that-obama-killed/. Plus ol’ Teddy “the Lady Killer” Kennedy was known to have conflated Obama with Osama. And “faux entertainment” is just that, entertainment. They have a news channel for, like, news. Ideologue much?
Kevin Greene Says:
May 2nd, 2011 at 8:46 am
Speaking of blinkered thinking….
Heads up! Jumbo jet with 5 escorting fighters just flew overhead of Calgary on the bearing from Alaska to SE USA. First time I’ve ever seen escorts – I think I know where Osama’s body really is.
Is the administration hoping that this will be their “Fall of Atlanta” moment as it was for Lincoln in 1
9864?Considering what happened to Lincoln in 1865, I’d say not. 🙂
Then again, I wouldn’t put it past lefties to whip out ill-thought historical analogies.
But then again again, I don’t think even the Left would be too quick to use a Civil War analogy. Lefties don’t view militant Muslims as negatively as they view the CSA, and do not believe that there was a Northern equivalent to the Western provocation that Leftists cast as the chief cause of hostilities between Muslims and the West. And they sure as (insert preferred realm of eternal damnation here) don’t want us to impose anything like Reconstruction on the Islamic world.
The Left will whip out a Civil War analogy when we’re in a conflict against an enemy the Left wants us to vanquish.
Hey Thomas, here’s that great patriotic American, Nancy Pelosi. When I write you and others like you are behaving this way because Obama’s a Democrat and you would be sneering about blood lust otherwise, I’m sure I can get more examples to answer that it’s a one off.
Avenger,
What is it with MSNBC and typos?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV8w8oD_rHE
Speaking of typos that Spell Check can’t correct, I recall that in the 80s some foreign news outlets had misreported that the US had invaded Granada instead of Grenada. ¡Oops!
Hello muddah, hello faddah …
“we’ll leave that sort of posturing to neo-conservative fools – if you can ever get one elected again after the blunders of the past decade.”
There have been a lot of neo-conservatives on TV lately speaking out in support of Obama’s war in Libya. “We will only be there a few days.” Mission accomplished!
I C wut u did ther. “It’s the economy, stupid!”
I would imagine that the intelligence haul on this mission would be colossal. Maybe even fatal to AQ. After all if this guy was using paper and couriers he must have a lot of stuff written down. Or maybe on a local computer.
Hope they had a little time to gather up the goodies.