The answer is that the left has never been in favor of free speech, except for themselves.
[Update a few minutes later]
I should add that I used to be a great fan of Robert Wright. I thought that The Moral Animal
[Update a few minutes later]
As someone notes in comments over at Ann’s site, this is a perfect example of why leftists aren’t entitled to the label “liberal.”
While we’re on the topic of free speech:
White Political Ralliers Call for Lynching of Black Justice (Sorry MSM, No Tea in this Blend)
This probably deserves a thread of its own.
Yea I knew he’s a Mormon. I’m not sure where Mormons and other Christians differ on the issue of medical miracles.
Regarding the subject of medical miracles: It’s notable that at revival meetings (the ones where the preacher drives to the event in a Rolls-Royce and steps up to the pulpit in a $5,000 suit) where the healing power of faith is emphasised – at such events there are often many wheelchairs, crutches and walking sticks left behind. Seldom, however, any significant number of prosthetic legs. Why? Surely God can give you your leg back as easily as he can cure arthritis?
I rather liked Richard Dawkins’ comment. “I submit that you are an atheist as well. Many people are atheist with respect to Baal, Zoroaster, Zeus, Shang-Ti and Brahma. I merely go one more step.”
Montejo,
[[[Yea I knew he’s a Mormon.]]]
Then why did you refer to his “nutbag Christianity” if you knew he was Mormon?
[[[I’m not sure where Mormons and other Christians differ on the issue of medical miracles.]]]
Nearly all religious faiths have a belief in miracles, medical and otherwise. Its why they are consider “faiths”, they have Faith in powers beyond those that are seen and measurable. In terms of specifics the belief in miracles vary greatly not only between faiths but within them. So there is no simple answer other then to say many in both religions believe in them.
“Regarding the subject of medical miracles: It’s notable that at revival meetings (the ones where the preacher drives to the event in a Rolls-Royce and steps up to the pulpit in a $5,000 suit) …”
Etc., etc. etc. It’s notable that when atheists want to criticize religious people, they invariably bring up that old cliché of the tent revival meeting with the cripples throwing their crutches to the ground & so on. Do you people even dream in color?
There is the principle of not casting pearls before swine. Some people demand evidence beyond witness testimony. Lazarus was dead long enough for his body to smell of it. His sisters knew he was dead. His neighbors knew he was dead. They also were witness to his resurrection.
If you choose not to believe it, you are calling all those people liars. Other miracles also have witnesses. The bible itself describes these events as being a type of court case with a great cloud of witnesses. You don’t have to believe any of it, but you do have to realize you are calling all these people liars.
If you choose not to believe it, you are calling all those people liars.
Assuming any of them ever existed. There’s a long chain of storytellers between the eyewitnesses and us. They could have sexed up an existing story or invented one.
It’s also possible to be alive and smell of death, for example, due to certain kinds of bacterial infections. Such infections were common to wounded in the US Civil War, for example, and the victims usually but not always died of the infection.
What would non-nutbag Christianity be?
I don’t believe any of the UFO testimony I’ve heard. As for whether the witnesses are liars, I presume some of them are and others have a kind of faith in it that’s not unlike religious faith.
Montejo,
I see. You believe that anyone with beliefs other then your own are either nuts or lairs… I feel sorry that you have such a narrow view of the world.
Ms. Harris – You have a point. The “religious” con artists have now changed their methods, and work on a bigger scale. Now, they do it on TV with 800 numbers and accept credit cards.
Assuming any of them ever existed.
Not everything written is to be believed (and that teacher that told her student it is, is an idiot.) However, there is plenty of reason to believe these witnesses.
The historian Josephus describes Jesus as a magician because the miracles associated with his life were well known. Turning water to wine might be kept secret but feeding thousands from a basket of fish and bread is liable to get the word out. Lazarus was not the only one raised. Their were different sets of witnesses for different acts. It’s not single source, the bible is a collection of different writers with different sources often commenting on the same events. This is sort of the definition of trustworthy.
It didn’t end with Jesus, while the apostles were alive they did many similar things. Again with a whole new set of witnesses. Perhaps the apostles never existed, but I believe otherwise.
There’s a long chain of storytellers between the eyewitnesses and us.
In many cases the bible refers to books and records that may no longer exist. But this isn’t the telephone game. We have copies of the writings that were written centuries apart. Because errors introduced in the text were random and different we have better, more accurate, copies today than just a hundred years ago.
Most bible accounts were written by people that were themselves witnesses to the events or were using current public records. Copies were widely distributed while witnesses to the events were still alive. Multiple perspectives (some inside captivity, others outside) of current events were written. There were plenty of people alive at the time of writings that could dispute the writings if they were lies.
Another point is although written over sixteen centuries by about forty writers there is a central theme to all the books from the first to the last. Jesus highlighted that theme during his life including reference to it in the ‘our father’ prayer.
Or course if could be all fairy tales and lies, but those skeptics that have chosen to research the matter have often had their views changed. Prophesy is not about foretelling the future for example, that’s just a modern understanding of the word. Prophesy is about telling the truth, past, present and future. Which is why the Samaritan woman at the well knew Jesus to be a prophet because he told her about her current life situation.
People like Isaac Asimov have picked at certain parts of the bible by using straw man arguments. He would take a misunderstanding by people and show that misunderstanding to be false. Completely ignoring other understandings that were inline with the facts. The earth is a ball that hangs upon nothing. Turtle all the way down is the fairy tale.
If I may add, one of my favorite references was when the apostle Paul refers to the Epimenides paradox.