Arizona is going to end its speeding camera program. I didn’t even know they had one, until I got a notice in the mail a few days ago with a picture of me at the wheel, on my way back from Space Access in Phoenix last month. Seventy one in a sixty zone.
I wonder how hard these are to challenge? With conventional tickets, you can demand a trial, and to see the calibration records on the radar, and such, and often win. Of course, being out of state, that would be a PITA.
I’ve heard that since it hasn’t been delivered in person, it doesn’t count as a summons, so you can just ignore it and it goes away.
I wonder what they do for foreigners driving a rental car. Deliver it to the rental car company and what? They rental car company mails it on to Australia? And then what? That’d be interesting. 🙂
Here’s a forum with a reference in it: http://forum.freeadvice.com/speeding-other-moving-violations-13/ticket-via-speed-camera-390133.html
And so all men are now presumed guilty instead of innocent with guilt proven at trial. What’s next?
I’ve read of a state, Ohio?, where the troopers carry credit card readers for your convenience in paying fines.
Here in Alberta, the registered owner of the vehicle has to pay the fine. There are no demerit points issued. Rental car companies make you sign an agreement that they can back-charge you for any fines incurred while you have their car.
I think they get a lot of payments without too many challenges because it’s just a road tax – easier to pay a hundred bucks or so than to fight it.
I read somewhere not long ago that Britain is testing a system that will be able to detect the speed of individual cars from a satellite in space. Of course if speed kills then their satellite at orbital velocity is an abomination to all humanity.
No where is this more true than in asset forfeiture situations. Police departments will often seize the assets of a someone the moment they are arrested. Then, they auction off people’s stuff before they’ve even had their trail. People will get off innocent and then go back to get their car only to find out it’s gone. Then, the PD will of course drag their feet taking forever to reimburse people the TMV of the asset. Of course their attitude is, “Oh, you no doubt did something wrong at some point in your life so your just paying the piper now.”
The reason they are ending the program is that people are ignoring the tickets with impunity. The few that have been challenged simply said “I never got any ticket,” and, as jrman said, it just goes away. They can’t prove the ticket ever arrived if it wasn’t served in person.
Of course, the fact that you’ve written about it in a Google-searchable venue kinda undermines the “I never got a ticket” defense.
I wonder what they do for foreigners driving a rental car.
I think they just randomly send it to somebody in their database. That’s not an off-hand remark either. We just got one in the mail this week. We got it, because it is our address on the ticket. But the name on the ticket is a woman we never heard of. She’s not a neighbor, and the Chevy SUV in the citation isn’t ours (I haven’t owned a GM product in almost a decade, and likely never will again).
We called the company (because of course, its not a law enforcement agency, but a collection agency), and they said that was the second time the ticket was sent out. Apparently they sent it to the rental company first. Now we have it, and it obviously isn’t us. So they told us to send it back with “person doens’t live here anymore”. I corrected them, because we are the only people who every lived here. But we are sending it back.
Rand, did you sign for the ticket certified mail?
Whenever I mail an enforcement document, It goes certified mail and I retain the green card as proof of service.
No green card, just ignore it.
Rand, did you sign for the ticket certified mail?
I haven’t done anything yet. The problem is, the notification actually came to Patricia, because the car’s registered in her name. I need to send it back to ‘fess up.
I would pay the ticket and be done with it. It’s a real ticket and it is pretty hard to contest. Ignoring it doesn’t work unless you don’t plan on driving in Arizona again.
only seventy one. huh.
Rand, I live in Arizona and have beaten one of these.
A big issue is who, exactly, ticketed you? If it’s DPS, the rules are different than if it’s a city. If it’s Scottsdale, watch out, they are draconian.
In my case, the bill came with my name (I’m the owner) and the photo showed my mother driving. Due to the fact that I’m male and have a beard, I do not look like my mother (Something apparently of no concern in this system). I sent the ticket back with a copy of my ID and photo, plus a copy of the photo they sent, declaring that I was not that person. I simply ignored the part where they told me to specify who it was. So far, it’s been five months and I’ve heard nothing back. This, BTW, was a DPS ticket.
If it’s a DPS ticket, and you aren’t the registered owner, I’d suggest having the registered owner send their picture ID, along with the ticket (which should contain the speedcam pic) back, declaring that they are not the one pictured. As for the part where the tell you to specify who it is, I was unable to find a requirement in AZ law to disclose that outside of court, so my suggestion is, just leave it blank.
Disclaimer: I’m not a lawyer, so take what I say with a HUGE grain of salt.
Best of luck.
CJ
This is why you keep a mask of Frank Sinatra in your car. When you drive past the speed cam just put the mask over your face. Then, you can say, that at me, my smile ain’t no where near as dashing.
Josh Reiter writes:
This is why you keep a mask of Frank Sinatra in your car.
A more appropriate mask would be a V-for-Vendetta mask. 😉
Mike
FWIW, the whole “face your accuser” thing is why Missouri is taking down most of their red-light and speed cameras. The state recently passed legislation mandating that all of these offenses become criminal traffic penalties, instead of civil penalties, and will require trials for offenders who request one.
Apparently, when people are allowed to defend themselves in court, it makes the whole revenue scheme too much of a hassle for the money involved (considering the government only keeps a small portion, with the rest going to the private contractor). Go figure.
John B wrote:
FWIW, the whole “face your accuser” thing is why Missouri is taking down most of their red-light and speed cameras. The state recently passed legislation mandating that all of these offenses become criminal traffic penalties, instead of civil penalties, and will require trials for offenders who request one.
Are you serious? I had not heard that! Thanks for brightening my day.
Mike