…about gun control:
The news account doesn’t tell us if this “semi-automatic rifle” is one of those terrifying “assault weapons” or a more common semi-automatic hunting rifle. The next time that someone asks why anyone would need an assault weapon, here’s your answer: four armed criminals forcing entry into a home that they know is occupied. The invaders knew that the inhabitants were probably going to be able to identify them later. What do you think these home invaders were going to do to potential witnesses before they left? Against a crew like this, a weapon that lets you fire 20 to 30 shots without reloading suddenly sounds useful.
I agree with him that gun controllers are not necessarily evil, that they sincerely believe the cognitive dissonant nonsense that they spout. As he says, it’s an hysterical combination of hoplophobia and a need to control an uncertain and (to them, at least) scary world. But I also don’t think that it’s just a coincidence that the largest mass murders, whether by madmen in universities, or governments committing genocide, occur when the populace has been disarmed. If we believe that the First Amendment should be expanded to the rest of the world, the right to self defense should be universal as well, as a fundamental human right.
For home self defense I would choose a sawed off shotgun first, a non sawed shotgun second, a handgun third and an assault rifle dead last. I would use the assault rifle only to whip the intruder and, in that case, only if I couldn’t find something better to whip him with.
Now if I was standing behind a fence, fending off a gang of zombies down the street, then I would prefer the assault rifle.
I would use the assault rifle only to whip the intruder and, in that case, only if I couldn’t find something better to whip him with.
There were four armed intruders. How fast can you pump?
I would chose an 11.5 SBR AR with a can for home defense.
And I would chose 75 grain Hornady TAP as my ammo of choice.
Coincidentially, TAP 55gr sometimes short-cycles in my Mini-14 with ProMag 20-rounders. No clue why. It may be intentionally underloaded to reduce penetration. So, I took it off the home defence duty in Mini (only load it into the primary SU-16).
I thought about a shotgun quite a bit, but the problem is again the small magazine capacity, pumping, and the scatter.I have a lever gun and it’s just not there for a shootout. A pump wouldn’t be either. I looked at Rem 7615 too, but I guess I’m just not comfortable working with the concept.
First question. Don’t they make semi-automatic shotguns?
Second question. Is a semi-automatic ever really needed for hunting? That is for white-tail deer and other animals apart from wild hogs, bison, rhinos, etc that are largely hunted outside North America.
Actually, for shotgun hunting, a two round capacity would be very useful — either a side-by-side or an over-and-under. What I do with a single-shot breakdown is hold a second shell in my left hand so as to not have to fumble through the pockets for a reload, but a two round gun would be much better. On the other hand, if I was a bad enough shot to require more than two rounds, I think I would end up blasting away and wasting ammo.
Like I go to Wal-Mart to buy a box of 20 gauge shells. It is such a big deal to summon a “sales associate” with the right key to unlock the ammo case, but meanwhile, true to Wal-Mart’s famed seasonal marketing, it is Fall and there are boxes upon boxes of a vastly more lethal ammo (30 caliber rifle) stacked on the open shelves behind me. So the dude gets there, unlocks the glass cabinet, and asks “So, how many boxes do you want?”
I stand their dumbfounded for a millisecond and mumble “One box, please.” I am wanting to say, “What do you mean how many boxes do I need? How bad of a shot do you think I am?”
Autoloading shotguns exist, but they have reliability issues (ammo compatibility issues actually) that are worse than those of rifles. They are also terribly expensive, have short magazines (with bizzare limitations imposed by gun-grabbers in many locales, e.g. in California removable magazines in shotguns are flatly outlawed), and have minimal length of 24″ vs. 16″ for a rifle. Don’t forget that if you want less stout family members to operate them, there’s an issue of weight and recoil.
I explain the prevalent bias towards shotguns among the self-defence experts by the following:
– They are (burly) men in good shape
– They have good alternatives or compliments to shotgun (pistols, or SMGs for cops)
If you train all the time a pistol is a superior weapon for a defense in urban confines. Just think how much easier and safer it is to clear corners with a pistol. We’re only talking rifles here because the model of the user involves someone who hardly can be expected to hit anything with a pistol, especially when stressed, and because of assinine anti-pistol laws everywhere. The last point cannot be stressed enough.
The bias towards shotguns stems from the fact that you don’t have to aim a shotgun nearly as well as a pistol. You can fire a shotgun through a door if need be. Also, shotguns are nearly always incapacitating or lethal at close range.
Most middle class homes rarely have rooms longer than twenty feet on a side. The majority of rooms are less than fifteen feet on a side. If I am in a box less than twenty feet on a side with an intruder, I will still take the shotgun.
> The bias towards shotguns stems from the fact that you don’t have to aim a shotgun nearly as well as a pistol.
Unless your house is really big, the spread isn’t all significant. Yes, a 2-4″ circle is a lot bigger than .357″, but a 2-4″ miss isn’t all that common.
Oh, and thanks to NFA-34, short-barrel shotguns (the legal name for “sawed off shotguns”) are very difficult to own legally.
I can do other things with my “spare” hand (such as dial a phone) while wielding a pistol. With a shotgun, not so much.
> What do you mean how many boxes do I need? How bad of a shot do you think I am?”
If you’re only taking one box, he’s got reason to suspect that you’re not a very good shot.
Good shooting requires a lot of practice.
In other news, hunting and self-defense have almost nothing to do with one another. (And, there’s a huge difference between subsistence hunting and recreational hunting.)
That said, wild hog hunting is reasonably common in the US.
Me, I “hunt” in grocery stores, but at least I realize that that makes me less moral than recreational hunters.
“Oh, and thanks to NFA-34, short-barrel shotguns (the legal name for “sawed off shotguns”) are very difficult to own legally.”
Takes 4-6 months to get a tax stamp for an SBR approved. I am shortly going to submit an app for two for the SBR-AR and can.
A shotgun is good for home protection, but I still like my SKS. And I don’t own a shotgun right now.
A short pump shotgun (riot gun) makes for a good home defense weapon. First of all, chambering a round makes an unmistakeable sound, one that can easily inspire a bowel movement in someone bent on causing mischief. A 20 guage is sufficient in most cases and easy to handle. It also has less chance of dangering family members. You can even go .410 if necessary and still have the hitting power of a .357 Magnum.
I would pick a HK MP7. It is light and easy to maneuver around in cramped spaces. Like say inside a house. Even something like a Glock 18 would be okay I guess. But they probably do not sell either of those to civilians. Duh.
Recreational hunting?
I speak of the rusty-furred Monster. With ugly white fangs and bushy tail. Who chews into one’s abode through the soffits, taking up quarters in the attic, making the upper story take on the smell of the gerbil cage. Bringing with it the Fear of Plague, Hemorrhagic Fever, ruined attic insulation and wires, and other such pestilence.
One hunts the Monster with the 20 gauge. One asks of one’s spouse for the semi-automatic 410 on the anniversary of coming into this world, but one’s spouse directs one to hunt the Monster with the armaments at hand, which be the break-down 20 gauge that had been sold to Mom by the counter guy at Wal-Mart when asked for defense against the Predator laying waste to one’s domestic geese.
One hunts the Monster by sound because then does the Monster think itself unseen under protection of cover. One does not see the Monster until staring it in the face. One seeks to dispatch the Monster with one shell, and this is not done by going through boxes of ammo on a practice range. This is done by keeping one’s cool and not freaking out when one has the Monster in one’s sights.
One does not engage the Monster when it believes itself to be seen and it leaps from tree to tree because with the Monster leaping, one cannot hit a darned thing, and if one had a semi-automatic, one would engage in a foolish waste of ammo.
The brothers of one’s spouse’s youth hunted the Monster with the 22, but one is reluctant to use the 22 as one is not that good of a shot and the rifled round could end up in bad places when shot upwards into a tree. One’s spouse had bequethed the high-velocity breakdown charged pellet gun, one’s spouses best friend’s husband claims to shoot the Monster with such armament, one has practiced many an hour on a range with said armament, but in pursuit of the Monster, one has failed to hit a darned thing with it, and the Monster getting into the attic and making the house smell like the gerbil cage is such serious business, one reverts to the 20 gauge.
Oh Rand, what is hoplophobia? Is that a fear of guys with round shields and long spears? Of pagan soldiers from the ancient world who might be gay?
> Takes 4-6 months to get a tax stamp for an SBR approved.
It depends on the state. In some states, you must build a successful movie studio first. In others, you must have a reasonable political career.
>> Recreational hunting?
> I speak of the rusty-furred Monster.
Pest control is yet another activity. It shares some characteristics with subsistence hunting and almost none with self-defense.
Getting serious here, the parents had a drunk person pound on the doors and try to break into their house for refuge at 2 AM after a car breakdown/wreck some years ago and it gave them a serious scare.
Mom took to keeping the breakdown shotgun loaded inside the house (well out in the country where city anti-gun ordinances do not apply). I talked the parents into keeping the shotgun unloaded and out of the way (these days laws are different and I keep it in a locked cabinet) on the premise that the single-shot breakdown gun with a small game load was way underpowered for personal defense and they were better hiding out unarmed than confronting any intruder with insufficient firepower.
The discussion of a personal defense firearm came up on two occasions, and both times the respondents said, “No question, a semi-auto shotgun.”
So question 1: am I right on technical reasons that if the choice is a confrontation with an underpowered gun and no gun, one is better off unarmed? Question 2: do people know what they are talking about with reference to a semi-auto shotgun for self defense, or are those things that unreliable that one is back to question 1?