Two years after the worst school massacre in history, some students and faculty are walking out of class to demand to the Texas legislature that they remain helpless victims. And we have the usual stupidity from a law professor who, despite sensible comments from Eugene Volokh, gets the last moronic and historically ignorant word. From the conclusion:
Paul Finkelman, an Albany Law School professor and former UT history and law professor, said that from a constitutional standpoint, the Texas Legislature has the right to allow concealed carry on campus, but he questioned the logic of state legislators.
“I think no one ever accused the Texas Legislature of being smart,” Finkelman said. “It seems to be an inordinately stupid plan because it means any lunatic can come on campus with a gun.”
Yes, and of course, that couldn’t possibly happen unless the legislature makes it legal for permit holders to come on campus. I mean, we saw how effective Virginia Tech’s gun-free zone was. Apparently, the lunatic just hadn’t gotten the memo.
He said he was surprised that anyone in Texas would consider wanting to have guns on state campuses, particularly UT.
“Given the history of UT when someone climbed up a tower and started shooting people, … what are these people thinking?” Finkelman said.
Perhaps they’re thinking that it was a good thing that there were armed students on campus that day, who got their guns from their cars and lockers, and saved many lives by keeping the shooter pinned back in the tower until the police arrived.
He said the Supreme Court rulings have basically said they are free to regulate fire arms.
“The sociological evidence is clear that if guns are handy, people will use them,” Finkelman said. “Having such a rule is an encouragement of death and mayhem at the University of Texas. There is no other way to describe it.”
Yes, if guns are handy, and people are being shot at, they will use them. Guns don’t stop people from shooting people, people with guns do. In fact, if you really want to encourage death and mayhem at a university, put up a sign that effectively says: “hundreds of densely packed unarmed victims inside.” It worked a real treat in Blacksburg two years ago.
OMG. I’m from UT. The idea that anyone THERE would even think of banning guns makes my jaw drop.
Yes, it’s a lefty town. Yes, most of the kids are *very* lefty. I don’t care. I guess no one in town remembers (or has been told) what really happened that day.
Too many CA transplants, I guess. Well crap. My backup plan was moving back there.
Technically it’s already legal to carry “on campus” under Texas law. The areas restricted are inside campus buildings and the stadium while athletic events are in progress.
Hmph. Even Texas Monthly (no NRA publication) acknowledges the role that students made in laying down suppressive fire until the professionals (i.e. Texas Rangers and Austin PD) showed up.
The suppressive fire drastically reduced the effectiveness of the sniper, who eventually succumbed to a pistol shot by a single police officer.
Some of these professors appear to regard themselves as meat puppeteers. OR are they meat puppets?
You’d think they’d at least have heard “The Ballad of Charles Whitman” by Kinky Friedman.
“He won’t be an architect no more.”
“Perhaps they’re thinking that it was a good thing that there were armed students on campus that day, who got their guns from their cars and lockers, and saved many lives by keeping the shooter pinned back in the tower until the police arrived.”
Given the tower was 307 feet in the air, i would be surprised if any students with handguns fired any effective rounds.
Now I do recall some locals showed up with long rifles
and provided suppressive fire, but, that’s much more plausible. If some students had long arms in their trucks, then that would also be plausible, but, short barreled sidearms aren’t good at that kind of range and angle.
it seems that if someone wants to argue that a better armed student body would prevent school shootings, then
it seems the argument at best would be that long rifles might help.
Has anyone done an analysis on school shootings in highly violent areas such as Gaza, Lebanon or Iraq, and wether that has helped?
They had hunting rifles, you ignoramus. And if the law passes, the students could have hunting rifles in their cars today. And someone standing in a tall tower isn’t the most likely scenario, as we saw in Blacksburg and Columbine.
Why do you insist on making a fool of yourself in comments, instead of educating yourself before posting?
“but, short barreled sidearms aren’t good at that kind of range and angle.”
Whitman was killed with a handgun.
“it seems that if someone wants to argue that a better armed student body would prevent school shootings, then
it seems the argument at best would be that long rifles might help.”
Jack, I seriously ask this question:”Has your higher-reasoning abilities always been this fvcked up? I am guessing you ate too many paint chips as a child.
The logical conclusion would be that both are better. Why are you so small and limited in your thinking?
Please, Jack is a professor of ethnic studies at my university. Many of his students (athletes, primarily) grew up under less than advantaged circumstances, and occasionally make personal threats toward Jack should he give them grades lower than they feel they deserve. Jack is only thinking about his personal safety, in this instance.
Assuming that this is the same “Jack,” are you saying that he should rely on a sign that no guns are allowed on campus, or that he should carry a gun to protect himself from those who would surely ignore it?
Rand
Are you arguing that Student at UT should be
carrying Hunting Rifles so they can prevent another
Charles Whitman?
Are you arguing that Student at UT should be carrying Hunting Rifles so they can prevent another Charles Whitman?
No.
And if you were a non-idiot, you wouldn’t even have asked that question.
“Please, Jack is a professor of ethnic studies at my university. ”
A professor of rhetoric he surely ain’t.
Jack,
Whay is it when you ask a question of Rand, you feel compelled to include a snide, cheap rhetorical strawman?
We all see thru it like a piece of glass, you aren’t winning any converts whatsoever.
A saner person would simply state:
Rand, what woud you propose to prevent another Whitman type incident?
Why is it when you ask a question of Rand, you feel compelled to include a snide, cheap rhetorical strawman?
Because illiterate “jack lee” is a troll.
You know he is a troll, I know he is a troll but does jack meet the de minimus stantards for higher level brain function to percieve himself as a troll? That is the question.
In reality, it is the fact that civilians were carrying hunting rifles that allowed Whitman to be stopped before he ran out of ammo.
Police at the time only carried side arms or shot guns. Neither are effective at 300ft. Civilians, however, had hunting rifles, which can have effective ranges out to 1000ft in the hands of a trained shooter. Anybody who has ever studied special weapons and tactics police training can tell you that the UT clock tower event is what started SWAT.
Of course, the civilians weren’t actually carrying hunting rifles on their body. You would have to be complete moron to think that’s the case. But some did have them in their car with ammo and without trigger locks. And the police praised those civilians that picked up their hunting rifles, went into a school zone, and provided return fire against a killer long enough for the police to get close with their side arms.
leland:
thank you for the brief summary of the UT Clock tower
event.
Now is Rand proposing that Rifles are what should be allowed on campus, or is he proposing that sidearms should be allowed on all campuses?
I am proposing that there should be nothing special about campuses when it comes to legal gun possession.
well the article you cite seems to be citing concealed carry.
so it seems you are arguing for an extension of concealed
carry into campuses.
so it seems you are arguing for an extension of concealed carry into campuses.
Are you arguing that that will be bad somehow? Personally, I don’t have a problem with private colleges having gun-free campuses along with the occasional massacre. People make choices about where they go to school, and those are the risks of going to a school without concealed carry. Nor do I have problems with a private college allowing concealed carry and the associated risks of that.