There are plenty of much greater criticisms, and I have them, as any regular reader of this site knows, and no one was more irritated by George Bush’s “nucular” than I was, but I find the new president’s own verbal affectations quite annoying.
“Tahleebahn”? “Pahkeestahn”?
Who talks like this?
As Glenn Reynolds pointed out a long time ago, it’s like the NPR correspondents who work mightily to get their local Spanish inflections exactly correct when reporting on their communist heroes in Central America while not bothering to learn the difference between an auto and semi-auto gun.
Hey, it’s just “Taliban” (like “tally” and to “ban” a book), and “Pakistan” (like “pack” for a trip, and “Stan,” Oliver Hardy’s partner).
And don’t even get me started about “Oreeon.” What does he, think it’s a cookie? That one will be a real problem for the next four years unless he kills the NASA program.
[Monday morning update]
And yes, before anyone asks, while (unlike many, apparently) I had no problem with Sarah Palin’s speech patterns in general, I did find her “Eye-rak” kind of grating.
Hooked on Phonics, Rand. Hooked on Phonics.
Plus, that’s how they pronounced it in elementary school in Indonesia.
Saturday Night Live, bless their dark little hearts, occasionally gets some of their satire on target instead of scattered across the civilian countryside.
Actor Jimmy Smits, a minor celebrity on account of his stint on LA Law, was in this skit where everyone was trying to use the NPR sound-it-out guide on Mexican food, with one guy asking for “hhheuvosss, rrrancherrros!”
The goof was of course on this kind of Hispanic authenticity, and the joke was that Jimmy Smits is an assimilated Hispanic and regular guy, who complains, “hey what is all this, I just wanted a burrito.”
Glad I’m not the only one annoyed by “Pahkeestahn” and the like (and yes, Bush’s “nucular” was just as bad, though I guess I didn’t notice as much since I hear far too many folks mispronounce nuclear, as well). I wonder if Barry knows he pronounces these words differently than almost everyone else in America, or is too oblivious to know/care?
I’ve previously remarked to husband number one about the O’s affected pronunciation of these words. It’s particularly irritating because he then pronounces “Afghanistan” normally: Af, as in “after”, gan, as in “gander”, and stan as in Laurel.
Taliban, rhymes with Caliban.
You’ve piqued our (or at least my) interest, Danae. By “husband number one” do you mean the first in a series who is no longer a husband, or one of others in parallel? Not that it’s our business, but it seems an interesting phrase.
I call it “South Park Pronunciation.” As in this.
It really doesn’t get any better than this.
I don’t know if this has anything to do with “Oreeun”, but for many years a Chicago radio broadcaster was named Orion Samuelson. However, he always pronounced it Oreeun instead of Orryan. This is a common dialect thing in southern Illinois, where towns like Versailles and Cairo are called Mar-sales or Kay-ro. But you would think a Harvard man would know better.
There is a local DC-area radio correspondent named Guadalupe [last name not recalled] who identifies herself in an unintended self-parodying, hyper-Latin-pronunciation.
She doesn’t say Gwah-dah-loo-pay as in the American version, but ‘WA-tha-lu-peh’ in such an over-the-top accent that if a comedian used that accent, he’d be raked over the coals by La Raza as “insensitive”!! We know you’re Hispanic, darlin’, from your name, but the overpronunciation is Ri-damn-diculous!!!
“Husband number one”–
Rand, I just assumed it was a subtle threat to keep the guy in line.
As an Indian, I will tell you that Obama’s pronunciation of Pakistan is actually correct.
BUT…
He simultaneously pronounces ‘Afghanistan’ wrongly. As per how he pronounces Pakistan, the correct way to pronounce Afghanistan is “Uf-GHAhn-ee-stahn”.
He pronounces Pakistan correctly since he heard a local say it. He never heard a local pronounce Afghanistan correctly, so he uses the American way.
In the Muslim world, America is also wrongly pronounced, as “AmrEEkka”.
The point isn’t whether or not it’s “correct” (in terms of local speakers, but I’m sure even there, there are variations). To an American, it sounds like an affectation (and as you point out, particularly so when he’s inconsistent about it, as with Afghanistan). Few Americans would care how the “Muslim world” (that’s a pretty big world — do you mean Arabic, which has its own variations?) pronounce “America.”
Rand,
The ‘Amreeka’ pronunciation (3 syllables instead of 4, due to no vowel between and m and r) is common from Egypt all the way through Pakistan.
England is called “Angrejistan”. English is called “Angreji”. Alexander is called ‘Sikander’. Solomon = Suleiman, Abraham = Ibrahim, etc.
I agree that Obama’s inconsistency is the most jarring. If he is going to say “Pock-ee-stahn”, then he better say ‘Uf-GHAHN-ee-Stahn’. Saying ‘Stan’ as in ‘Stanly’ is always wrong, but at least be consistent, like Sarah Palin.
The way the ‘t’ is pronounced in all three words (stan, Taliban, etc) is itself a pronunciation of ‘t’ that does not exist in English.
Much like Chinese people have trouble saying ‘l’, resulting in ‘rorripop’ and ‘rurrabye’.
If you have an Indian friend, go ask him verbally about the ‘t’ and ‘Paki/Afghani-stan’ pronunciations.
I assume GT is referring to Arabic – Farsi’s a little different (Iran, since I get asked that a lot). “AmrEEkka” is the same, but “English” is “Ahn-ga-lee-see.” Just to clarify.
Patrick, I couldn’t get the link to load properly for some reason (redirected), but I’m familiar with that episode and am assuming you’re referring to the “durka-durka” so-called “Arabic” used. The weird thing is, the “marg bar amreeka” (“death to America”) chant really is Dari/Farsi.
Consistency! It’s a good thing.
I wonder how Obama pronounces “realtor” and “nuptials”. Or “negotiate”. Those are my top three cringe-inducers.
It seems that if you are going to say “Pah-kee-stahn” then you should also be saying “E-span-ya”, “Doich-lahnd”, “Nee-hon”, and “Zhang-gwo”.
But maybe, if you are speaking English, it is correct to use the English names for things.
I wonder how Obama pronounces “realtor” and “nuptials”. Or “negotiate”.
“Tony’s friend”, “gateway to the Machine”, and “strongarm”, respectively.
I noticed the tick, including his ordinary pronunciation of Afghanistan, right next to Pahk-ee-stahn. More interesting to me, however, is how so many commentators have adopted the same pronunciations. It’s all over NPR, and just a bit ago on Fox General Petraeus mimicked Obama exactly. I suspect Obama is laughing up his sleeve at the slavishness of so many of his followers. I think it’s pretty disgusting, myself.
It’s the extra-nuanced way that Professors talk-down to the little people.
I’m more concerned about dimballah thinking there are “moderate” taliban members than how he pronounces the word.
““Tony’s friend”, “gateway to the Machine”, and “strongarm”, respectively.”
Good one.
” think it’s pretty disgusting, myself.”
I find it frightening, and VERY, VERY similar to what happened in Germany circa 1933-37.
GK: “Much like Chinese people have trouble saying ‘l’, resulting in ‘rorripop’ and ‘rurrabye’.”
Gk, as a Chinese person, I know you are definitely wong here. As in “two wongs do not make one wight.”
It’s the “r” that we are supposed to have touble ponouncing.
And please — don’t forget poor “Frohnce!”
Why do they get left out in the cold?
If he’s going to say “Pahkeestahn,” then dammit, he needs to to say “Doitchlahnd,” “Espanya,” “Neehon,” “Jong-gwo,” “Rossya,” “Yisrael,” and so on.
Wouldn’t that be a hoot?
“Thank you, Chancellor Merkel, and thank you to the people of Doitchlahnd for making my visit to BearLEEN and Minhyen so agreeable.”
Our president is a posturing nebbish.
I wonder how Bambi would pronounce Bumfukistan…
I might point out that the word ‘India’ never originated in India.
Hindu Indians called their own country ‘Bharat’ and Hindi-language speech still refers to it as ‘Bharat’.
Muslims to the West called India ‘Hindustan’, which also took hold in India. Today, that word is used often, even though it is excluding of the 17-20% of Indians who are not Hindu.
In India today, the three terms Hindustan, Bharat, and India are used interchangeably, depending on which language the surrounding sentence is spoken in.
IC,
So why did ‘Team America : World Police” show the Korean Kim-Jong-Il singing “I’m so Ronery..”?
It’s time to admit that “nucular” is a regionalism. I’ve given up keeping track of the smart, literate people who pronounce the word that way, and I’m old enough to remember that Jimmy Carter, a nuclear, repeat, nuclear engineer, pronounced the world “nucular.”
Get used to it, these will be the required national pronunciations by 2010.
Because he’s Korean, not Chinese.
My grandma and her husband lived next to Willow Grove NAS, and they spent a lot of time in the O-club (he being a Navy vet.) It was called “The Orion Club”, since a couple of P-3 units operated out of WGNAS.
It wasn’t until I was telling a funny story about the vet mispronouncing my cat’s name that she realized it WASN’T “Oreeon”.
(This same vet had first called him “Onion”, and then corrected herself…to “Oreeon”…)
Whenever Obama pulls his Pahkeestahn pronunciation someone should promptly ask him about NAFTA and our partners “Canada” and … “Meh- ee -ko.”
It all started with Chris Matthew’s CHEEENY!
GK, The Korean Kim Jong-Il is not Chinese. Really.
It wasn’t just Bush II who did ‘nuculur’, it was also Clinton and Bush I, at the least. Also Carter; not sure about Reagan.
If I were writing a 24-style spy thriller, I’d have had that be the Presidential Distress code: if he ever pronounces ‘nuclear’ correctly, the agents know that he’s acting under duress and can respond accordingly…
Re Orion, is it possible he’s never seen Men in Black?
emerich, I don’t believe Dimbulb Carter was actually a nucular engineer (or a nuclear engineer, either). He studied engineering of some kind at the Naval Academy, and was then admitted to Admiral Rickover’s team and eventually was qualified to serve on a nuclear powered submarine. I’m not certain that that would qualify him as a ‘nuclear engineer’ unless by that he meant he drove the sub much as a train engineer drives the train.
;->=
There’s another word that he also mispronounces. It’s the indefinite article, “a”. He pronounces it as the letter “AY” rather than “uh”. This is surprising since he is able to pronounce its homonym, which is his most common word; namely, “uh”.
Most liberal reporters are now also mispronouncing “a”.
Great. Now his is stuck in my head:
Come, Mister tally man, tally me ba na na
Daylight he come and me wanna go home
Come, Mister tally ban, tally me O ba ma
Bar ack he come and Rik Wagna go home
Day-O Day-O
… I’m old enough to remember that Jimmy Carter, a nuclear, repeat, nuclear engineer, pronounced the world “nucular.”
Although on some occasions it came out “nookier” … but then, we all know what was on his mind and in his heart.
“Tahleebahn” is short for…
“Tahlee me bahnanas.”
Daylight come, an’ me wan’ go home.
Who cares about “Orion.”
I want to know how he pronounces “Uranus.”
GK: “So why did ‘Team America : World Police” show the Korean Kim-Jong-Il singing “I’m so Ronery..”?”
GK, are you kidding me? You are talking about the Korean Kim JI, not the Chinese Mao Tze-Dong.
Koreans are not Chinese, Japanese are not Koreans are not Chinese, Vietnamese are not Japanese are not Koreans are not Chinese… They may look the same to you. But believe me, they don’t speak the same languages, don’t even share a set of alphabets like most Europeans do. Within China, a Shanghainese speaker will not understand what the heck a Cantonese speaker is yapping about.
I think it’s from his time in Indonesia. I’ve also heard central or SE Asian English-speakers use the term “oby-gyny” versus O-B-G-Y-N as he has been heard to say.
Normal people say i-RACK and i-RAN when theyre talking terrorists for the same reason they say OFF-fence and DEE-fence when they’re talking football – because it’s easy for a listener to confuse them if you pronounce them the hoity-toity Miss Thistlebottom’s Dictionary way.
It’s not the RACK and RAN that bother me — it’s the EYE.
But maybe, if you are speaking English, it is correct to use the English names for things.
Agreed. When I worked in college radio, we had a news director who was part German (to the extent that her mother was named “Helga” and spoke German at home). She was insistent that an earthquake was measured on the RISH-ter scale (the German pronunciation) because the guy’s name looked German–never mind that Mr. RICK-ter was actually born in Ohio…
“Koreans are not Chinese, Japanese are not Koreans are not Chinese, Vietnamese are not Japanese are not Koreans are not Chinese…”
But Koreans and Chinese both have the same difficulty with pronouncing ‘l’.
Hence the ‘I’m so Ronery’ from Kim Jong-Il.