…of multi-culturalism in the Netherlands?
Labor’s line seems to stand on its head the old equation of jobs-plus-education equals integration. Conforming to Dutch society’s social standards now comes first. Strikingly, it turns its back on cultural relativism and uses the word emancipation in discussing the process of outsiders’ becoming Dutch.
For the Netherlands’ Arab and Turkish population (about 6 percent of a total of 16 million) it refers to jobs and educational opportunities as “machines of emancipation.” Yet it also suggests that employment and advancement will not come in full measure until there is a consciousness engagement in Dutch life by immigrants that goes far beyond the present level.
Indeed, Ploumen says, “Integration calls on the greatest effort from the new Dutch. Let go of where you come from; choose the Netherlands unconditionally.” Immigrants must “take responsibility for this country” and cherish and protect its Dutch essence.
Not clear enough? Ploumen insists, “The success of the integration process is hindered by the disproportionate number of non-natives involved in criminality and trouble-making, by men who refuse to shake hands with women, by burqas and separate courses for women on citizenship.
“We have to stop the existence of parallel societies within our society.”
Better late than never. And what’s amazing is that this is coming from the left.
When is the UK going to figure it out?
Rand, do you believe that men refusing to shake hands with women is an issue, in isolation?
I’m asking because many Orthodox Jews (which are a small minority of Jewish Americans as well as Jews worldwide) will refuse to touch non-related members of the opposite sex, if I’m not mistaken. There are other similarities between some Orthodox Jews and the Dutch Muslims who are said to be living in a “parallel society”, and yet Orthodox Jews are generally productive and helpful members of the American experience. For that matter, many of the Amish also live in a parallel society, and to a great extent than Orthodox Jews. I think the Amish are a boon to America, and certainly not harmful.
What is motivating me, by the way, is memories of my childhood, in which our house was the only house in the neighborhood that didn’t put up Christmas lights, and I would take a beating from the other kids at the bus stop because of it. Today I live in a neighborhood where only 50% of the houses put up Christmas lights, and the kids at the bus stop on the corner seem fine with that (even if they still find other things to fight about).
I think that that the problem, to the extent that the Netherlands is having a problem, is not a lack of assimilation and conformity. I don’t want my comment to open the door to Muslim bashing or anti-semitism, but I do think we should all think critically about which aspects of a “parallel society” are harmful and which are not.
Rand, do you believe that men refusing to shake hands with women is an issue, in isolation?
I think that it’s an issue, but not one in which the state should be involved.
I think that that the problem, to the extent that the Netherlands is having a problem, is not a lack of assimilation and conformity.
It is to the extent that they refuse to accept Dutch law. If there is a Dutch law that requires that men shake women’s hands, that would be a bad law, but they should work to change the law, rather than living by their own. The problem is that they not only don’t assimilate, but they maintain contact with their former countries and cultures, to the extent of setting up arranged marriages from there, and refuse to accept the (tolerant) culture of the nation in which they live.
I don’t want my comment to open the door to Muslim bashing or anti-semitism, but I do think we should all think critically about which aspects of a “parallel society” are harmful and which are not.
Of course we should. Who said otherwise?
I should add that, other than the brief unpleasantness imposed by its neighbor to the east in the 1940s, the Netherlands have never had a problem with Orthodox Jewry. They have a big problem with Muslims…
The complaints from the Netherlands don’t appear to be confined to legal issues. Clothing, handshakes, and arranged marriages shouldn’t be an issue (and I doubt the latter two are the subjects of any law). There might be a problem with separatist Muslims in the Netherlands, but I think the Dutch (and perhaps you) are focusing on superficial symptoms rather than looking at the underlying causes. On the surface, orthodox Jews, Amish, and law abiding separatist muslims might be quite similar.
Clothing, handshakes, and arranged marriages shouldn’t be an issue (and I doubt the latter two are the subjects of any law).
You don’t think that refusing to allow your face to be photographed for a driver’s license should be an issue? You don’t think that bringing in an underaged woman from another country for what is essentially sex slavery should be an issue?
There might be a problem with separatist Muslims in the Netherlands, but I think the Dutch (and perhaps you) are focusing on superficial symptoms rather than looking at the underlying causes.
That’s possible, I suppose, but you certainly haven’t even come close to making a case for it.
On the surface, orthodox Jews, Amish, and law abiding separatist muslims might be quite similar.
Well, since you’re the one looking at “the surface,” I would suggest that it is you who are focusing on “superficial symptoms.”
Of course sexual slavery and/or the abuse of children is an issue! But why doesn’t the article focus on this important issue instead of talking about cultural superficialities like handshakes. I didn’t intend any personal criticism of you, but since you’ve written in the past about the assimilation of Muslim immigrants to Europe in the past, I thought it might be helpful to compare and contrast them with groups here, like (some) orthodox Jews and (some) Amish. I can’t make a strong case – just thought I’d comment to add a different perspective – but that’s all I’ve got to say.
Of course sexual slavery and/or the abuse of children is an issue! But why doesn’t the article focus on this important issue instead of talking about cultural superficialities like handshakes.
Gee, I don’t know, Bob.
Why don’t you go ask the person who wrote it?
It was a rhetorical question – I thought we were both commenting on the article, not writing to the author. I’m sorry if you’re annoyed.
This is really great news. Tolerance of intolerance is insanity.
I eagerly await the glitterati and Ivory Tower intellectuals to admonish the knuckle-draggers in Washington to follow Europe’s lead in this matter. It’s much more sophisticated than our own!
Having lived in the Netherlands recently, I can tell you that the country does not have any more of a “problem” with muslims than Americans do with Mexicans. Similar to here, there is a small but vocal group of politicians whose sole election strategy is to create divisions where none exist. I agree with Rand’s assertion in one of the comments that it is not a matter for the governments, and therein lies the great problem of the Netherlands – the citizenry are completely blinded to and unable to comprehend the difference between government actions and social ones, because they have lived in the warm embrace of socialist bureaucracy for so long.
As with all private matters, when government gets beyond a simple policing and cataloging role in immigration things tend to go wrong. It is no longer a case of making a honest but difficult living and policing a few bad apples. It becomes an issue of taking money from citizens to police laws made to give jobs to lawyers. Rather than a few just laws being broken on occasion, unjust laws are passed that lead some immigrants to reject the rule of law in general. In the Netherlands, 75%+ of GDP goes through government in some form of tax, fee, or compulsory payment – little surprise the people are looking to cast some groups as sub-human (and therefore undeserving of their money). The market has been reduced to satisfying a few luxuries. Influence and stature is gained by political sway, which can be had by two methods: having a Dutch family with hands in various bureaucracies and “industries”, or corruption of the same.
Having a fiancee who is not a US national, I can verify that the same system of straw man laws is alive and well in the US. We rant against latinos bringing down our economy out one side of our mouths while begging for a leveraged national bailout with the other. This country, like the Netherlands, could use a good infusion of culture, namely the hard-working, self sufficient, entrepreneurial type that makes up the vast majority of immigrants of just about every type.