OK, when we last left our hero, his unclegreat-uncle had liberated AuschwitzBuchenwald while in the army. Or did he?
His only Great Uncle is Charles W. Payne. It at least appears that no one by that name from Kansas served in the Army during WWII.
Charles W. Payne of Kansas, with a similar birth era, served in the Navy during WWII.
What Obama’s campaign released via first link above states he served in the Infantry. I assume it’s possible the records are wrong, or he changed branches. But I’m unaware of that as a standard practice. Perhaps it happened during WWII for manpower reasons? Otherwise, Obama’s Great Uncle would seem to have done most of his marching and liberating while at sea.
Hey, maybe the story is fake, but accurate.
You know, if I were an Obama staffer, I’d start fact checking everything he says, to try to stay ahead of the blogosphere. If this turns out to be true, that press release that the campaign put out yesterday is going to be pretty embarrassing.
[Update a few minutes later]
There’s no “Charles W. Payne” listed as having served in the 89th Infantry Division. The closest it comes is a Pfc “C. T. Payne,” which even if it’s a Charles, has the wrong middle initial.
I think that yesterday’s press release has to be considered non-operative at this point.
[Update a few minutes later]
More at The Virginian, which notes that Buchenwald was a slave labor camp, not a Jewish extermination site, so it’s less convenient than Auschwitz for political purposes:
what we appear to have is something that’s commonly known as “resume inflation.” And that’s what you get when you have a man who has no real experience. When what you have is an empty suit who is trying to pretend that there is substance there.
But what was the point of the fable? The point was really to try to connect with the American people by telling them how callous the government is about the emotional problems of its soldiers. The “uncle” is supposed to have spent six months in the attic, having experienced the sights he encountered in the liberation of Ohrdruf, an experience that may have lasted less than three hours.
The punch line is that Obama will make sure that America’s fighting men and will get all the mental care they deserve.
That’s it. That’s the punch line. That’s the reason for the fable. That’s what American fighting men are good for: a story line for a health care pitch. And the combat vet is cast in the eternal role that the Liberals have created for him: the crazy uncle in the attic. Just wait until Barack discovers another uncle whose wartime experiences drove him to drink and living in the street when he isn’t shooting up a beer hall on Saturday nights.
Yes, that’s what bothers me about this story, even if it’s true. As is usually the case with Democrats, they seem unable to talk about the military without slandering them or making them out to be victims.
[Early afternoon update]
It’s possible that the genealogy site linked by Dan Riehl has the middle initial wrong. If you assume that the middle initial wasn’t “W,” there actually were five Charles Paynes in the army from Kansas: a Charles A, a Charles E, a Charles J, and two Charles Ls (the second one is a Charlie rather than Charles). So it’s possible that it’s one of them. The problem remains, though, that we don’t have any record of a Charles Payne in the 89th, and the only potential candidate (C. T. Payne) doesn’t have any of those middle initials.
[Update a few minutes later]
Heh. Here is a map that might explain it.
[Mid-afternoon update]
OK, the issue seems to be resolved, assuming we can take the word of the proprietors at the 89th Division web site:
Concerning the service of Mr. Charles Payne: C.T. Payne was a soldier in the 89th Infantry Division. He served in the 355th Infantry Regiment, Company K. The 355th Infantry Regiment was the unit to liberate Ohrdruf. Mr. Payne was there.
But we still don’t know why his middle name is “T” there, and “W” at the genealogy site. Not that it matters.
[Update a few minutes later]
The statement is a little Clintonesque. It says that Charles Payne was there, but it doesn’t say that it’s the Charles Payne who is Obama’s great uncle. The only reason that I’m suspicious is because of this. They seem to be Bush deranged.
[Late evening update]
I think that it’s clear that Obama’s great-uncle did have a role in liberating Buchenwald. I have a follow-up post here.
Obama doesn’t get off clean.
If Charles T. Payne is alive and resides in N. Lake Shore, Chicago, why can’t one go and interview him? Someone also said his phone is listed. Comeon guys, get going.
The Obama campaign should be on their toes. If they want to deflect the wave of criticisms, why not publish something factual in support of their candidate’s claim? As it is, their revision of the info in Barack’s speech needs further fixing, elucidation.
Now, did Charles T Payne enlist in Kansas, or did he reside in another state when he enlisted? Did he enlist as one of the Charles W’s in Kansas or as Charles T. in Kansas?
There was no one listed as Charles T Payne who entered the service in Kansas, enlisted or drafted. The available records for Obama’s great-uncle listed his name as Charles, Charles E., or Charles W. Payne.
There WAS a Charles E. Payne listed as drafted into the Army from Augusta, KS in 1943. Right time, right place, probably the man in question despite the middle-initial confusion.
But not Charles T. as currently indicated, or as or Charles W. as previously reported, hence the confusion.
If Charles T. Payne is alive and resides in N. Lake Shore, Chicago, why can’t one go and interview him? Someone also said his phone is listed. Comeon guys, get going.
You can try. Nothing is stopping you. But as he is apparently refusing to give interviews and not answering the listed phone, good luck with that.
“My father-in-law served in WWII, including at the Battle of the Bulge and guarding top Nazis in prison. I’m sure he has medals but he’s never shown or discussed them. He never spoke at all of his service for 50 years; then apparently when it had faded enough into history and from his psyche, he started to talk minimally about it when the subject came up.
“This is what a real veteran is about…”
Never discussing all the war crimes he saw and committed!
“I object to a prez who doesn’t know where Auschwitz is and why that made it unlikely for his Uncle to have liberated it…and who doesn’t know who did.”
So you object to our current president, who probably is unable to identify on a map where Europe is?
Ed Darrell wrote:
And now McCain’s camp extends the disrespect to World War II veterans?
SarahW wrote:
Larry J, none here disrespect the service of any WW2 vet.
You want to see who is slandering military members? Just look at Nick Danger’s post above:
“This is what a real veteran is about…”
Never discussing all the war crimes he saw and committed!
So the uncle was on the mother’s side of the family, presumably white then. Did he contribute to the racist attitudes of Obama’s grandmother that made Obama’s youth a living hell? Will Obama roll him under the bus the way he did granny or go with the theme that the uncle personally saved the jewish people and their religion from total extinction?
Maybe instead of finding flaws with everything from a middle initial to whether it was an uncle or great uncle, you could simply research his family tree. The internet *was* created for research purposes, you know. Posting opinions, gossip, conspiracies, and innuendo on a blog and treating it as if it were actual news is merely an unfortunate offspring. I can go to any one of thousands of websites that send spam to my email and get a concise and accurate family history dating back to when my primordial ancestors first flopped onto dry land, yet you’d rather pick at which camp it was or a middle initial instead of going about things the intelligent way? Really? I have an uncle who was in the military and was a big part of my life for 35 years, yet I only found out two months ago that he had been shot in Vietnam and received a silver star for his actions leading to it. I also didn’t know until two days after he died that my father was called by his middle name by his parents and siblings. My point? It is very possible for people to not know all the facts about other family members that they see every day, never mind from a couple of generations back.
If you want to play amateur detective, than do so the RIGHT way. Provide some information rather than speculation… or is that too much to ask?